Originally posted by rogue06
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Take This Impeachment And Shove It...
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"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Sam View PostA good example of why it does no good at all to cite the criminal code when making a determination whether or not a person actually broke the law or can be successfully prosecuted. In Clinton's case, the inadvertent or retroactive classification issues would have failed, not least of which because (as I keep reminding folks) Clinton didn't do anything more than Powell before her at State ... and certainly did a lot less than the Bush administration did running WH comms through a RNC server that lost some 20 million emails.
But, again, not the point at issue. Folks who were all gabby about how Clinton or Obama were breaking laws weren't demanding the criminal code section number or a legal treatise on why prosecution would be successful.
--Sam
1. The RNC servers are more secure than the e mail server Clinton was using.
2. As far as we’re aware, Bush not his admin used non secure e mail to transfer secured documents. Let me explain how the system works:
There’s 4 levels of classification,
A. Top secret
B. Secret
C. Classified
D. Non classified
There’s computer networks rated for the transfer of these materials and it’s illegal to send e mails by the wrong channels. Clinton directed her staff to send secret material to her private server, which is a violation of the transfer of secret material. Her and her staff should had know better, they were trained, just as I am, on the usage of classified material.
There you have it, but I’m sure you’ll excuse it away like you always do."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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1) There is not evidence or testimony that Clinton directed her staff to send secret emails on her private server.
2) We don't have any information regarding the security of the Bush-era RNC servers.
3) We don't know whether anyone directed that classified information be sent on those servers, nor what classified information might have been transferred.
4) We know that the deletion of such records was a violation of the Presidential Records Act.
5) We know that the WH deputy actually advised at least one person to intentionally avoid the official WH comm system because it would leave a record.
But here you are, trying to find a way to argue that using the domain georgewbush.com/gb43.com for multiple WH staff was somehow cool and that Clinton's server was something way different and beyond the pale.
--Sam
Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostRight on que, but you still fail:
1. The RNC servers are more secure than the e mail server Clinton was using.
2. As far as we’re aware, Bush not his admin used non secure e mail to transfer secured documents. Let me explain how the system works:
There’s 4 levels of classification,
A. Top secret
B. Secret
C. Classified
D. Non classified
There’s computer networks rated for the transfer of these materials and it’s illegal to send e mails by the wrong channels. Clinton directed her staff to send secret material to her private server, which is a violation of the transfer of secret material. Her and her staff should had know better, they were trained, just as I am, on the usage of classified material.
There you have it, but I’m sure you’ll excuse it away like you always do."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThat's what liberals keep saying, but it's not what the Constitution says. The Constitution makes it clear that impeachment is reserved exclusively for cases where the president is guilty of a serious crime.A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
George Bernard Shaw
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostRight on que, but you still fail:
1. The RNC servers are more secure than the e mail server Clinton was using.
2. As far as we’re aware, Bush not his admin used non secure e mail to transfer secured documents. Let me explain how the system works:
There’s 4 levels of classification,
A. Top secret
B. Secret
C. Classified
D. Non classified
There’s computer networks rated for the transfer of these materials and it’s illegal to send e mails by the wrong channels. Clinton directed her staff to send secret material to her private server, which is a violation of the transfer of secret material. Her and her staff should had know better, they were trained, just as I am, on the usage of classified material.
There you have it, but I’m sure you’ll excuse it away like you always do.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Catholicity View PostSo how serious is soliciting a foreign government for aid?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Catholicity View PostSo how serious is soliciting a foreign government for aid?Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Sam View Post1) There is not evidence or testimony that Clinton directed her staff to send secret emails on her private server.
2) We don't have any information regarding the security of the Bush-era RNC servers.
3) We don't know whether anyone directed that classified information be sent on those servers, nor what classified information might have been transferred.
4) We know that the deletion of such records was a violation of the Presidential Records Act.
5) We know that the WH deputy actually advised at least one person to intentionally avoid the official WH comm system because it would leave a record.
But here you are, trying to find a way to argue that using the domain georgewbush.com/gb43.com for multiple WH staff was somehow cool and that Clinton's server was something way different and beyond the pale."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostEven worse, Hillary instructed her staff on how to remove certain markings and keywords to avoid detection, which shows willful intent to break the law.
Thing is, even if she didn’t direct it, they should have known better.Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-10-2019, 09:13 AM."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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You, unfortunately, simply don't know what you're talking about here. Both the Clinton and RNC servers were email servers. People weren't "transferring" classified or secret information over, like Trump staff putting his calls into the NSC code word server. People were sending emails.
Clinton's server had security and a firewall. As far as anyone can tell, it was never breached. You're thinking of something else.
Clinton didn't transfer classified material. She received, by memory, a small number of emails that contained confidential - but not classified - information. Other information was retroactively classified.
My argument was that prosecuting Clinton for something that appears to have been habitual behavior among senior Washington staff was not going to work. I'm not defending the behavior. You were arguing that the cases were different, implying that Clinton's server merited prosecution whereas the Bush administration's use of the RNC server would not (because you argued that Clinton put secret info on her server and the Bush admin did not).
"Clinton did what her predecessors did and you have to start prosecuting people for this sometime" might be a decent argument. But it's a lot harder one for a prosecutor to make than the false canard a number of you throw around here.
--Sam
Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostHow did secret material end up on an unsecured network? They are not connected. Somebody had to have transferred it over. You’d know this if you had the slightest idea how any of this worked.
They likely had more than the Clinton server, that wasn’t even using a basic firewall or encryption software. Remember, the RNC servers were not breached, as far as we know, in 2016.
The systems are not connected together. Someone, in violation of their security training, transferred it over.
Which doesn’t change the fact that Hillary illegally transferred classified material. If anyone, in the Bush Admin, broke the law, they should share a cell right next to Hillary and her staff. Sorry, but I’m not an apologist for Bush. I didn’t even vote for him in 2004.
Than he should share a cell with a Hillary staff member. Like I said, I’m not a Bush apologist.
I did? I just got done saying throw them both in jail, but I see you’re desperately grasping at straws. Hillary broke the law and got away with it the exact same way, she’s well connected, just as the Bush staffer is. Why you defend Clinton with this, “Oh yeah, what about this!!” Is you have no choice, Clinton is a Democrat so you’ll defend her, no matter what. I’m under no obligation to defend Bush or his administration."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostYou, unfortunately, simply don't know what you're talking about here. Both the Clinton and RNC servers were email servers. People weren't "transferring" classified or secret information over, like Trump staff putting his calls into the NSC code word server. People were sending emails.
Clinton's server had security and a firewall. As far as anyone can tell, it was never breached. You're thinking of something else.
Clinton didn't transfer classified material. She received, by memory, a small number of emails that contained confidential - but not classified - information. Other information was retroactively classified.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...email-defense/
BTW, the intentional part was made up to protect Clinton. She and her staff had the training, they knew better. So who told you this lie?
My argument was that prosecuting Clinton for something that appears to have been habitual behavior among senior Washington staff was not going to work. I'm not defending the behavior. You were arguing that the cases were different, implying that Clinton's server merited prosecution whereas the Bush administration's use of the RNC server would not (because you argued that Clinton put secret info on her server and the Bush admin did not).
"Clinton did what her predecessors did and you have to start prosecuting people for this sometime" might be a decent argument. But it's a lot harder one for a prosecutor to make than the false canard a number of you throw around here.
--SamLast edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-10-2019, 10:12 AM."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Your argument was that Clinton had classified information placed on her server. That's untrue; the classified information on her server was retroactively classified, as the Politifact link you used makes clear, and wouldn't have been on a classified-use server when it was sent. Nor does the article support, in any way, your contention that Clinton directed that classified information be sent to her. The "very small number" of confidential ("C") emails that were sent to Clinton did not, by memory, originate on a secure server. But even if they had, they were received by Clinton through email, not directed by her to be stored on the server.
You just make up things.
--Sam
Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostThis shows you’re talking about things you don’t understand, but think you do. Unclassified e mails are sent via an unclassified network, which is connected to the internet while classified networks are not connected to the internet, but to their own, independent servers. Are you even slightly informed about any of this? You can’t just send an e mail to an unclassified e mail system from a classified one, someone has to transfer the data over.
That’s not what I’ve read. The FBI can’t even say if that’s true because the server was wiped clean.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...email-defense/
BTW, the intentional part was made up to protect Clinton. She and her staff had the training, they knew better. So who told you this lie?
Sorry Sam, but you want to pretend her and her staff were ignorant of the law when they were not. Read for yourself or go as Bill the Cat, he works on classified material on a regular bases and knows the rules, laws, and training far better than I do. He has said, several times, that Hillary and her staff broke the law willingly.
No she didn’t, but keep your eyes and ears closed and all that nasty information, that proves you wrong, will disappear."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostYour argument was that Clinton had classified information placed on her server. That's untrue; the classified information on her server was retroactively classified, as the Politifact link you used makes clear, and wouldn't have been on a classified-use server when it was sent. Nor does the article support, in any way, your contention that Clinton directed that classified information be sent to her. The "very small number" of confidential ("C") emails that were sent to Clinton did not, by memory, originate on a secure server. But even if they had, they were received by Clinton through email, not directed by her to be stored on the server.
You just make up things.
--SamLast edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-10-2019, 10:40 AM."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Clearing data from any computer so well that the forensic teams can't find anything isn't something that can be done accidentally - unless you're using a Commodore 64..."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostClearing data from any computer so well that the forensic teams can't find anything isn't something that can be done accidentally - unless you're using a Commodore 64...
I've installed a Bleachbit-like program in hundreds of computers and insist to everyone who comes to me for a computer swap that the old HDD be either wiped or smashed as a matter of basic security protocol.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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