Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Take This Impeachment And Shove It...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    We sent to Pigeon Forge this year for the National Quartet Convention. Little did we know that there was a Forged in Fire event at the same time, and I got to meet (and have my picture with) a number of the winners of the various episodes. It was really neat - and they were ... um... forging in fire!!!
    Ah, did you get to meet the "Your knife... will 'keel'!" guy? He's awesome!
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Ah, did you get to meet the "Your knife... will 'keel'!" guy? He's awesome!
      Naw, but naturally, they all had pictures of themselves with him.
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
        Looks like a swing of about 10% from Labour to Conservative. Brexit now assured.
        How soon do you think that will happen? Fast Track?
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          How soon do you think that will happen? Fast Track?
          Unless Johnson is insane, the first part happens at the end of January.

          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

          Comment


          • TIME blows a big hole in the impeachment narrative with an interview with Andriy Yermak, one of President Zelensky's top advisers:

            Based on the testimony from Sondland and other witnesses, the final report from the House Intelligence Committee concluded last week that Sondland made this offer of a quid pro quo clear to Yermak that day in Warsaw. “Following this meeting, Ambassador Sondland pulled aside President Zelensky’s advisor, Mr. Yermak, to explain that the hold on security assistance was conditioned on the public announcement of the Burisma/Biden and the 2016 election interference investigations,” the report states.

            Yermak disputes this. “Gordon and I were never alone together,” he said when TIME asked about the Warsaw meeting. “We bumped into each other in the hallway next to the escalator, as I was walking out.” He recalls that several members of the American and Ukrainian delegations were also nearby, as well as bodyguards and hotel staff, though he was not sure whether any of them heard his brief conversation with Sondland. “And I remember – everything is fine with my memory – we talked about how well the meeting went. That’s all we talked about,” Yermak says.

            These comments cast doubt on an important moment in the impeachment inquiry’s reconstruction of events: specifically, the only known point at which an American official directly tells the Ukrainians about the link between U.S. aid and the announcement of specific investigations.

            [...]

            When TIME asked him whether he had ever felt there was a connection between the U.S. military aid and the requests for investigations, Yermak was adamant: “We never had that feeling,” he says. “We had a clear understanding that the aid has been frozen. We honestly said, ‘Okay, that’s bad, what’s going on here.’ We were told that they would figure it out. And after a certain amount of time the aid was unfrozen. We did not have the feeling that this aid was connected to any one specific issue.”

            https://time.com/5746417/ukraine-and...ent-interview/
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
              Even idiots can follow this argument:


              WaPo
              We will see what happens.
              Only idiots *accept* that argument.

              The actual argument is that the impeachment is so clearly baseless and unconstitutional that it should be dismissed outright, rather than legitimized in any way. I agree with that. It is NOT the approach Trump desires. He wants to call in a bunch of witnesses, including Joe Bumblin' and the leakblower, and see them thoroughly slapped around. I think his reasoning is manifold, including --

              -- He's spiteful, and wants a lot of payback

              -- He thinks muddying up Bumblin' and the others during the election season would benefit him in the fall.
              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

              Beige Nationalist.

              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                How soon do you think that will happen? Fast Track?
                Boris has the majority he needs to pass the ‘divorce agreement’, or whatever Boris wants, so that we are no longer members of the EU at the end of Jan. 2020. This is just the start of a long transition period. Permanent trading arrangements with the EU are still to be agreed and will take a couple of years. The situation in Ireland has changed significantly, but I am not sure how that affects things.

                I expect that the situation will become clearer in the next few days.

                Despite the result, the population is still split evenly on the Brexit question but Corbyn was not trusted. Scotland is solidly with the Scot Nats, much of it tactical voting, the Cons lost half of their seats. We have never been so divided and it remains to be seen whether Boris can heal the divisions.
                Last edited by firstfloor; 12-13-2019, 05:35 AM.
                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                “not all there” - you know who you are

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  TIME blows a big hole in the impeachment narrative with an interview with Andriy Yermak, one of President Zelensky's top advisers:

                  Based on the testimony from Sondland and other witnesses, the final report from the House Intelligence Committee concluded last week that Sondland made this offer of a quid pro quo clear to Yermak that day in Warsaw. “Following this meeting, Ambassador Sondland pulled aside President Zelensky’s advisor, Mr. Yermak, to explain that the hold on security assistance was conditioned on the public announcement of the Burisma/Biden and the 2016 election interference investigations,” the report states.

                  Yermak disputes this. “Gordon and I were never alone together,” he said when TIME asked about the Warsaw meeting. “We bumped into each other in the hallway next to the escalator, as I was walking out.” He recalls that several members of the American and Ukrainian delegations were also nearby, as well as bodyguards and hotel staff, though he was not sure whether any of them heard his brief conversation with Sondland. “And I remember – everything is fine with my memory – we talked about how well the meeting went. That’s all we talked about,” Yermak says.

                  These comments cast doubt on an important moment in the impeachment inquiry’s reconstruction of events: specifically, the only known point at which an American official directly tells the Ukrainians about the link between U.S. aid and the announcement of specific investigations.

                  [...]

                  When TIME asked him whether he had ever felt there was a connection between the U.S. military aid and the requests for investigations, Yermak was adamant: “We never had that feeling,” he says. “We had a clear understanding that the aid has been frozen. We honestly said, ‘Okay, that’s bad, what’s going on here.’ We were told that they would figure it out. And after a certain amount of time the aid was unfrozen. We did not have the feeling that this aid was connected to any one specific issue.”

                  https://time.com/5746417/ukraine-and...ent-interview/
                  Commenting on the report Nadler summarily dismissed it as Yermak must be lying.

                  If it contradicts their fantasies the TDS crowd simply dismisses actual evidence (and not unsubstantiated third-hand hearsay rumors) as lies or a conspiracy theory.

                  TDS is a terrible thing.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                    Boris has the majority he needs to pass the ‘divorce agreement’, or whatever Boris wants, so that we are no longer members of the EU at the end of Jan. 2020. This is just the start of a long transition period. Permanent trading arrangements with the EU are still to be agreed and will take a couple of years. The situation in Ireland has changed significantly, but I am not sure how that affects things.

                    I expect that the situation will become clearer in the next few days.

                    Despite the result, the population is still split evenly on the Brexit question but Corbyn was not trusted. Scotland is solidly with the Scot Nats, much of it tactical voting, the Cons lost half of their seats. We have never been so divided and it remains to be seen whether Boris can heal the divisions.
                    Thanks, ff.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                      Only idiots *accept* that argument.

                      The actual argument is that the impeachment is so clearly baseless and unconstitutional that it should be dismissed outright, rather than legitimized in any way. I agree with that. It is NOT the approach Trump desires. He wants to call in a bunch of witnesses, including Joe Bumblin' and the leakblower, and see them thoroughly slapped around. I think his reasoning is manifold, including --

                      -- He's spiteful, and wants a lot of payback

                      -- He thinks muddying up Bumblin' and the others during the election season would benefit him in the fall.
                      Not to mention that the longer this has been in the public eye the better and better Trump is doing.

                      For instance, the Quinnipiac poll (which has consistently had some of the worst numbers for Trump) has for the first time found that a majority of Americans don't want Trump impeached (51 to 45).

                      Meanwhile, the Real Clear Politics poll (which takes the numbers from all the major polls and averages them out) has Trump's approval ratings at an all-time high at 45%. That is higher than the approval rating for Obama at the same point of his presidency[1].

                      And as I pointed out a couple days ago:
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Meanwhile, since the impeachment circus put up their big tent, Trump's numbers continue to improve. He now leads every Democrat in Iowa with something like 7 points over Sanders and Warren. This is a state that just a month or so ago all the pundits were assuring everyone that was a lock for the Democrats in 2020.

                      IIRC, until the start of the impeachment circus Trump was trailing all of the Democratic contenders and now he leads in every matchup.

                      And while the goal of the impeachment was to embarrassed Republicans into supporting impeachment this has backfired spectacularly. What we are seeing are cracks forming among Democrats with an increasing number making noises about not supporting an impeachment when it comes to a full vote in the House[2] and Republican solidarity becoming even firmer.

                      And as Trump's approval numbers continue to increase the biggest shift has been among Independents. This means that as a result of the impeachment, more and more folks who aren't conservative are starting to support him.

                      So is it any wonder why Trump wants to keep this front and center and in the public eye?







                      1. And this in spite of Obama getting constant praise and adoration from the MSM while Trump gets nothing but the most negative coverage of any president ever from a MSM that thinks that making stuff up is legitimate just as long as Trump is the target.

                      2. Even the increasingly strident Washington Post is telling its readers House Democrats brace for some defections among moderates on impeachment of Trump warning that

                      House Democratic leaders are bracing for some defections among a group of moderate Democrats in swing districts who are concerned a vote to impeach President Trump could cost them their seats in November.
                      Last edited by rogue06; 12-13-2019, 06:44 AM. Reason: fix link

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Interesting four point defense...

                        The GOP’s Four-Point Defense Of Trump Is Devastating

                        Basically, the 4 points are....

                        1. both Trump and Zelensky say there was no pressure applied.
                        2. the transcript does not indicate Trump making any demands or setting any conditions.
                        3. Ukraine was not aware that the aid was delayed.
                        4. aid flowed without any announcement of investigations.


                        Taken together, these four defenses have more than enough weight to crush the Democrats’ case, but lets look at them one by one....


                        It was amusing to watch the Democrats become quite agitated declaring that Zelensky was a HOSTAGE (blink blink) who is ONLY saying that because he's in fear for his life, and one of them actually said "he has a GUN TO HIS HEAD".

                        The Dems are showing themselves to be horrible debaters, and emotional basket cases.
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Interesting four point defense...

                          The GOP’s Four-Point Defense Of Trump Is Devastating

                          Basically, the 4 points are....

                          1. both Trump and Zelensky say there was no pressure applied.
                          2. the transcript does not indicate Trump making any demands or setting any conditions.
                          3. Ukraine was not aware that the aid was delayed.
                          4. aid flowed without any announcement of investigations.


                          Taken together, these four defenses have more than enough weight to crush the Democrats’ case, but lets look at them one by one....


                          It was amusing to watch the Democrats become quite agitated declaring that Zelensky was a HOSTAGE (blink blink) who is ONLY saying that because he's in fear for his life, and one of them actually said "he has a GUN TO HIS HEAD".

                          The Dems are showing themselves to be horrible debaters, and emotional basket cases.
                          We can now add the fact that the person that Sondland said he "might" have told that Trump wanted a favor, Andriy Yermak, is uncategorically denying that Sondland said any such thing and goes further to add that they never even talked privately about anything.

                          And yes, Jerry Nadler, summarily dismissed Yermak's statements as lies.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • The idea is that the Ukrainian government is so scared of Trump that they're willing to lie for him, but they're apparently not so scared that they would immediately agree to announce an investigation into Joe Biden. I have yet to see anybody reconcile this discrepancy.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              The idea is that the Ukrainian government is so scared of Trump that they're willing to lie for him, but they're apparently not so scared that they would immediately agree to announce an investigation into Joe Biden. I have yet to see anybody reconcile this discrepancy.
                              They hope that you don't think very deeply about all this.


                              Come to think of it the first six words of that sentence should suffice.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                                Even idiots can follow this argument:
                                Senate Republicans say there is an early consensus building within their ranks for a short impeachment trial that could see the GOP-led chamber vote on a likely acquittal of President Donald Trump without hearing from any witnesses.”
                                That would be such a ridiculous dereliction of duty, such an obvious sign they are toadies of the president, that I sort of hope they do it. The American people would see the House bring forth 17 witnesses, more than 100 hours of testimony while the Senate has, well, nothing. It’s not clear frankly that you can have a “trial” without witnesses or evidence.
                                WaPo
                                We will see what happens.
                                Exactly why they should dismiss it. The House has no evidence or actual witnesses to any crime. They have "trumped" up charges, hearsay "evidence" and their witnesses are nothing but people who are spouting their opinions. With no evidence and no witnesses the case is just open and shut. Dismissed.

                                If a prosecutor tried to do the same at a criminal trial, it would also be dismissed by the court.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by seer, Yesterday, 09:49 AM
                                12 responses
                                61 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post seer
                                by seer
                                 
                                Started by rogue06, Yesterday, 08:47 AM
                                52 responses
                                324 views
                                2 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by Starlight, Yesterday, 01:07 AM
                                34 responses
                                223 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Starlight  
                                Started by Gondwanaland, 01-24-2021, 07:45 PM
                                7 responses
                                60 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Sparko
                                by Sparko
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 01-24-2021, 11:11 AM
                                46 responses
                                284 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post MaxVel
                                by MaxVel
                                 
                                Working...
                                X