Take This Impeachment And Shove It...

[Mountain Man]

We sent to Pigeon Forge this year for the National Quartet Convention. Little did we know that there was a Forged in Fire event at the same time, and I got to meet (and have my picture with) a number of the winners of the various episodes. It was really neat - and they were ... um... forging in fire!!!

Ah, did you get to meet the "Your knife... will 'keel'!" guy? He's awesome!

[Cow Poke]

Ah, did you get to meet the "Your knife... will 'keel'!" guy? He's awesome!

Naw, but naturally, they all had pictures of themselves with him.

[Cow Poke]

Looks like a swing of about 10% from Labour to Conservative. Brexit now assured.

How soon do you think that will happen? Fast Track?

[Teallaura]

How soon do you think that will happen? Fast Track?

Unless Johnson is insane, the first part happens at the end of January.

[Mountain Man]

TIME blows a big hole in the impeachment narrative with an interview with Andriy Yermak, one of President Zelensky's top advisers:

Based on the testimony from Sondland and other witnesses, the final report from the House Intelligence Committee concluded last week that Sondland made this offer of a quid pro quo clear to Yermak that day in Warsaw. “Following this meeting, Ambassador Sondland pulled aside President Zelensky’s advisor, Mr. Yermak, to explain that the hold on security assistance was conditioned on the public announcement of the Burisma/Biden and the 2016 election interference investigations,” the report states.

Yermak disputes this. “Gordon and I were never alone together,” he said when TIME asked about the Warsaw meeting. “We bumped into each other in the hallway next to the escalator, as I was walking out.” He recalls that several members of the American and Ukrainian delegations were also nearby, as well as bodyguards and hotel staff, though he was not sure whether any of them heard his brief conversation with Sondland. “And I remember – everything is fine with my memory – we talked about how well the meeting went. That’s all we talked about,” Yermak says.

These comments cast doubt on an important moment in the impeachment inquiry’s reconstruction of events: specifically, the only known point at which an American official directly tells the Ukrainians about the link between U.S. aid and the announcement of specific investigations.

[...]

When TIME asked him whether he had ever felt there was a connection between the U.S. military aid and the requests for investigations, Yermak was adamant: “We never had that feeling,” he says. “We had a clear understanding that the aid has been frozen. We honestly said, ‘Okay, that’s bad, what’s going on here.’ We were told that they would figure it out. And after a certain amount of time the aid was unfrozen. We did not have the feeling that this aid was connected to any one specific issue.”

https://time.com/5746417/ukraine-and...ent-interview/

[NorrinRadd]

Even idiots can follow this argument:


WaPo
We will see what happens.

Only idiots *accept* that argument.

The actual argument is that the impeachment is so clearly baseless and unconstitutional that it should be dismissed outright, rather than legitimized in any way. I agree with that. It is NOT the approach Trump desires. He wants to call in a bunch of witnesses, including Joe Bumblin' and the leakblower, and see them thoroughly slapped around. I think his reasoning is manifold, including --

-- He's spiteful, and wants a lot of payback

-- He thinks muddying up Bumblin' and the others during the election season would benefit him in the fall.

[firstfloor]

How soon do you think that will happen? Fast Track?

Boris has the majority he needs to pass the ‘divorce agreement’, or whatever Boris wants, so that we are no longer members of the EU at the end of Jan. 2020. This is just the start of a long transition period. Permanent trading arrangements with the EU are still to be agreed and will take a couple of years. The situation in Ireland has changed significantly, but I am not sure how that affects things.

I expect that the situation will become clearer in the next few days.

Despite the result, the population is still split evenly on the Brexit question but Corbyn was not trusted. Scotland is solidly with the Scot Nats, much of it tactical voting, the Cons lost half of their seats. We have never been so divided and it remains to be seen whether Boris can heal the divisions.

[rogue06]

TIME blows a big hole in the impeachment narrative with an interview with Andriy Yermak, one of President Zelensky's top advisers:

Based on the testimony from Sondland and other witnesses, the final report from the House Intelligence Committee concluded last week that Sondland made this offer of a quid pro quo clear to Yermak that day in Warsaw. “Following this meeting, Ambassador Sondland pulled aside President Zelensky’s advisor, Mr. Yermak, to explain that the hold on security assistance was conditioned on the public announcement of the Burisma/Biden and the 2016 election interference investigations,” the report states.

Yermak disputes this. “Gordon and I were never alone together,” he said when TIME asked about the Warsaw meeting. “We bumped into each other in the hallway next to the escalator, as I was walking out.” He recalls that several members of the American and Ukrainian delegations were also nearby, as well as bodyguards and hotel staff, though he was not sure whether any of them heard his brief conversation with Sondland. “And I remember – everything is fine with my memory – we talked about how well the meeting went. That’s all we talked about,” Yermak says.

These comments cast doubt on an important moment in the impeachment inquiry’s reconstruction of events: specifically, the only known point at which an American official directly tells the Ukrainians about the link between U.S. aid and the announcement of specific investigations.

[...]

When TIME asked him whether he had ever felt there was a connection between the U.S. military aid and the requests for investigations, Yermak was adamant: “We never had that feeling,” he says. “We had a clear understanding that the aid has been frozen. We honestly said, ‘Okay, that’s bad, what’s going on here.’ We were told that they would figure it out. And after a certain amount of time the aid was unfrozen. We did not have the feeling that this aid was connected to any one specific issue.”

https://time.com/5746417/ukraine-and...ent-interview/

Commenting on the report Nadler summarily dismissed it as Yermak must be lying.

If it contradicts their fantasies the TDS crowd simply dismisses actual evidence (and not unsubstantiated third-hand hearsay rumors) as lies or a conspiracy theory.

TDS is a terrible thing.

[Cow Poke]

Boris has the majority he needs to pass the ‘divorce agreement’, or whatever Boris wants, so that we are no longer members of the EU at the end of Jan. 2020. This is just the start of a long transition period. Permanent trading arrangements with the EU are still to be agreed and will take a couple of years. The situation in Ireland has changed significantly, but I am not sure how that affects things.

I expect that the situation will become clearer in the next few days.

Despite the result, the population is still split evenly on the Brexit question but Corbyn was not trusted. Scotland is solidly with the Scot Nats, much of it tactical voting, the Cons lost half of their seats. We have never been so divided and it remains to be seen whether Boris can heal the divisions.

Thanks, ff.

[rogue06]

Only idiots *accept* that argument.

The actual argument is that the impeachment is so clearly baseless and unconstitutional that it should be dismissed outright, rather than legitimized in any way. I agree with that. It is NOT the approach Trump desires. He wants to call in a bunch of witnesses, including Joe Bumblin' and the leakblower, and see them thoroughly slapped around. I think his reasoning is manifold, including --

-- He's spiteful, and wants a lot of payback

-- He thinks muddying up Bumblin' and the others during the election season would benefit him in the fall.

Not to mention that the longer this has been in the public eye the better and better Trump is doing.

For instance, the Quinnipiac poll (which has consistently had some of the worst numbers for Trump) has for the first time found that a majority of Americans don't want Trump impeached (51 to 45).

Meanwhile, the Real Clear Politics poll (which takes the numbers from all the major polls and averages them out) has Trump's approval ratings at an all-time high at 45%. That is higher than the approval rating for Obama at the same point of his presidency^[1].

And as I pointed out a couple days ago:

Meanwhile, since the impeachment circus put up their big tent, Trump's numbers continue to improve. He now leads every Democrat in Iowa with something like 7 points over Sanders and Warren. This is a state that just a month or so ago all the pundits were assuring everyone that was a lock for the Democrats in 2020.

IIRC, until the start of the impeachment circus Trump was trailing all of the Democratic contenders and now he leads in every matchup.

And while the goal of the impeachment was to embarrassed Republicans into supporting impeachment this has backfired spectacularly. What we are seeing are cracks forming among Democrats with an increasing number making noises about not supporting an impeachment when it comes to a full vote in the House^[2] and Republican solidarity becoming even firmer.

And as Trump's approval numbers continue to increase the biggest shift has been among Independents. This means that as a result of the impeachment, more and more folks who aren't conservative are starting to support him.

So is it any wonder why Trump wants to keep this front and center and in the public eye?







1. And this in spite of Obama getting constant praise and adoration from the MSM while Trump gets nothing but the most negative coverage of any president ever from a MSM that thinks that making stuff up is legitimate just as long as Trump is the target.

2. Even the increasingly strident Washington Post is telling its readers House Democrats brace for some defections among moderates on impeachment of Trump warning that

House Democratic leaders are bracing for some defections among a group of moderate Democrats in swing districts who are concerned a vote to impeach President Trump could cost them their seats in November.

[Cow Poke]

Interesting four point defense...

The GOP’s Four-Point Defense Of Trump Is Devastating

Basically, the 4 points are....

1. both Trump and Zelensky say there was no pressure applied.
2. the transcript does not indicate Trump making any demands or setting any conditions.
3. Ukraine was not aware that the aid was delayed.
4. aid flowed without any announcement of investigations.

Taken together, these four defenses have more than enough weight to crush the Democrats’ case, but lets look at them one by one....

It was amusing to watch the Democrats become quite agitated declaring that Zelensky was a HOSTAGE (blink blink) who is ONLY saying that because he's in fear for his life, and one of them actually said "he has a GUN TO HIS HEAD".

The Dems are showing themselves to be horrible debaters, and emotional basket cases.

[rogue06]

Interesting four point defense...

The GOP’s Four-Point Defense Of Trump Is Devastating

Basically, the 4 points are....

1. both Trump and Zelensky say there was no pressure applied.
2. the transcript does not indicate Trump making any demands or setting any conditions.
3. Ukraine was not aware that the aid was delayed.
4. aid flowed without any announcement of investigations.

Taken together, these four defenses have more than enough weight to crush the Democrats’ case, but lets look at them one by one....

It was amusing to watch the Democrats become quite agitated declaring that Zelensky was a HOSTAGE (blink blink) who is ONLY saying that because he's in fear for his life, and one of them actually said "he has a GUN TO HIS HEAD".

The Dems are showing themselves to be horrible debaters, and emotional basket cases.

We can now add the fact that the person that Sondland said he "might" have told that Trump wanted a favor, Andriy Yermak, is uncategorically denying that Sondland said any such thing and goes further to add that they never even talked privately about anything.

And yes, Jerry Nadler, summarily dismissed Yermak's statements as lies.

[Mountain Man]

The idea is that the Ukrainian government is so scared of Trump that they're willing to lie for him, but they're apparently not so scared that they would immediately agree to announce an investigation into Joe Biden. I have yet to see anybody reconcile this discrepancy.

[rogue06]

The idea is that the Ukrainian government is so scared of Trump that they're willing to lie for him, but they're apparently not so scared that they would immediately agree to announce an investigation into Joe Biden. I have yet to see anybody reconcile this discrepancy.

They hope that you don't think very deeply about all this.


Come to think of it the first six words of that sentence should suffice.

[Sparko]

Even idiots can follow this argument:

Senate Republicans say there is an early consensus building within their ranks for a short impeachment trial that could see the GOP-led chamber vote on a likely acquittal of President Donald Trump without hearing from any witnesses.”
That would be such a ridiculous dereliction of duty, such an obvious sign they are toadies of the president, that I sort of hope they do it. The American people would see the House bring forth 17 witnesses, more than 100 hours of testimony while the Senate has, well, nothing. It’s not clear frankly that you can have a “trial” without witnesses or evidence.

WaPo
We will see what happens.

Exactly why they should dismiss it. The House has no evidence or actual witnesses to any crime. They have "trumped" up charges, hearsay "evidence" and their witnesses are nothing but people who are spouting their opinions. With no evidence and no witnesses the case is just open and shut. Dismissed.

If a prosecutor tried to do the same at a criminal trial, it would also be dismissed by the court.