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Take This Impeachment And Shove It...

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Sam View Post
    To the point about impeachment: don't have to commit a crime to be impeached...
    Not according to the Constitution. Impeachment is reserved explicitly as a remedy for "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors," so if we're going by the Constitution, there must be proof of an actual crime, and a very serious one at that. The Founding Fathers never intended it as a tool for settling merely political grievances.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Sam View Post
      Yes, fair. I was referring to Hillary Clinton and Obama, who folks 'round here fairly routinely accused of crimes without specifying to what they were referring to in US criminal code.
      Are you stupid? No, so why are you saying such a dumb thing? Improper storage and transfer of classified material is a federal crime. Denying this and pretending nobody stated what crime Hillary was accused of committing shows that you’re dishonest, a liar, or just plain dumb. What one of the three is it? As for Obama, it’s not too hard to accuse him of abuse of power.

      To the point about impeachment: don't have to commit a crime to be impeached but the same criticism about past behavior would apply. Being impeached doesn't create a special necessity to dig up USC sections and clauses.
      And again, your tune would be different, if it was Clinton currently in office.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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      • #78
        Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
        Are you stupid? No, so why are you saying such a dumb thing? Improper storage and transfer of classified material is a federal crime. Denying this and pretending nobody stated what crime Hillary was accused of committing shows that you’re dishonest, a liar, or just plain dumb. What one of the three is it? As for Obama, it’s not too hard to accuse him of abuse of power.



        And again, your tune would be different, if it was Clinton currently in office.

        Thank you, I suppose, for jumping in to prove my point.

        Which wasn't "Hillary Clinton and Obama committed no crimes" (though, yeah, I'd obviously dispute the premise) but "People around here accused Clinton and Obama of crimes without anyone incessantly demanding for a citation from US criminal code."

        I'd like to think people read carefully and consider what they're jamming out before posting but I'll take the occasional inadvertent assistance as consolation.

        --Sam
        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          Translation: I can't admit I'm wrong so I'll keep saying the same silly thing until she gives up.

          I am reminded of the story about the pastor who came in one Sunday and preached an uncomfortable sermon. Then again the next Sunday and the next. When the congregation complained, she told them that she'd keep preaching until it stuck.

          Your argument, if you ever choose to make it, is with CRS, historical precedent, and White's concurrence, which you picked out as an authoritative source. Until you deal with those, you're avoiding a substantive discussion and I'll have to point back to where it's at.

          --Sam
          "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Sam View Post
            Thank you, I suppose, for jumping in to prove my point.

            Which wasn't "Hillary Clinton and Obama committed no crimes" (though, yeah, I'd obviously dispute the premise) but "People around here accused Clinton and Obama of crimes without anyone incessantly demanding for a citation from US criminal code."

            I'd like to think people read carefully and consider what they're jamming out before posting but I'll take the occasional inadvertent assistance as consolation.

            --Sam
            If your goal was to prove your ignorance, good job, but here is the crime Hillary is accused of committing;

            Improper storage, transfer, and security of classified material.

            People have gone to jail for far less than Hillary did, do you deny that is a crime? Yes or no?

            It isn’t hard to search and find the precise law(s) that Hillary is accused of breaking... what articles though show what laws Trump broke?
            Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-09-2019, 12:44 PM.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • #81
              Interesting...

              Americans expect President Trump to get roughed up in a House impeachment but soldier on to win reelection, according to the latest poll on the White House crisis.

              In the Zogby Analytics survey provided exclusively to Secrets:

              Likely voters, 53% to 40%, support the House impeachment inquiry.
              By a margin of 47%-41%, they support impeachment.
              And by a wide gap of 46% to 33%, voters “believe President Trump will win re-election in 2020.”
              Pollster Jonathan Zogby said, “Maybe this is the perfect storm for a Trump win in 2020. He has survived every crisis imaginable, and maybe he will become the first president to be impeached and reelected. Sounds crazy, but in the case of Donald Trump, not that crazy.”

              https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/w...020-reelection
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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              • #82
                Even the title of this thread is impeachable. All the Mueller obstruction stuff is impeachable, asking for foreign assistance in an election is impeachable, and the ongoing obstruction is impeachable.

                The fact that he hides his financial dealings could itself be impeachable. Congress decides what is and what is not an impeachable act.
                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                “not all there” - you know who you are

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                  Even the title of this thread is impeachable. All the Mueller obstruction stuff is impeachable, asking for foreign assistance in an election is impeachable, and the ongoing obstruction is impeachable.

                  The fact that he hides his financial dealings could itself be impeachable. Congress decides what is and what is not an impeachable act.
                  Trump wears extra long ties - surely that's impeachable, as well!
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    If your goal was to prove your ignorance, good job, but here is the crime Hillary is accused of committing;

                    Improper storage, transfer, and security of classified material.

                    People have gone to jail for far less than Hillary did, do you deny that is a crime? Yes or no?

                    It isn’t hard to search and find the precise law(s) that Hillary is accused of breaking... what articles though show what laws Trump broke?
                    Comey listed several things that he said Hillary could be indicted for before bizarrely concluding that "no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case."

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                      Even the title of this thread is impeachable. All the Mueller obstruction stuff is impeachable, asking for foreign assistance in an election is impeachable, and the ongoing obstruction is impeachable.

                      The fact that he hides his financial dealings could itself be impeachable. Congress decides what is and what is not an impeachable act.
                      So when the Ukraine government helped Hillary that would have been impeachable? Or when Clinton (president at the time) asked Tony Blair to help Gore in his campaign against Bush that would have been impeachable? How about the Russia dossier that used Russian nationals to dig up dirt on Trump?
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Comey listed several things that he said Hillary could be indicted for before bizarrely concluding that "no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case."
                        A good example of why it does no good at all to cite the criminal code when making a determination whether or not a person actually broke the law or can be successfully prosecuted. In Clinton's case, the inadvertent or retroactive classification issues would have failed, not least of which because (as I keep reminding folks) Clinton didn't do anything more than Powell before her at State ... and certainly did a lot less than the Bush administration did running WH comms through a RNC server that lost some 20 million emails.

                        But, again, not the point at issue. Folks who were all gabby about how Clinton or Obama were breaking laws weren't demanding the criminal code section number or a legal treatise on why prosecution would be successful.

                        --Sam
                        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Sam View Post
                          A good example of why it does no good at all to cite the criminal code when making a determination whether or not a person actually broke the law or can be successfully prosecuted. In Clinton's case, the inadvertent or retroactive classification issues would have failed, not least of which because (as I keep reminding folks) Clinton didn't do anything more than Powell before her at State ... and certainly did a lot less than the Bush administration did running WH comms through a RNC server that lost some 20 million emails.

                          But, again, not the point at issue. Folks who were all gabby about how Clinton or Obama were breaking laws weren't demanding the criminal code section number or a legal treatise on why prosecution would be successful.

                          --Sam
                          Apples and oranges Sam, we are talking about impeachment here. Only done twice in this country for actual CRIMINAL offenses...
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Sam View Post
                            I am reminded of the story about the pastor who came in one Sunday and preached an uncomfortable sermon. Then again the next Sunday and the next. When the congregation complained, she told them that she'd keep preaching until it stuck.

                            Your argument, if you ever choose to make it, is with CRS, historical precedent, and White's concurrence, which you picked out as an authoritative source. Until you deal with those, you're avoiding a substantive discussion and I'll have to point back to where it's at.

                            --Sam
                            From special pleading to projection. Reality isn't fun anymore?
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              Trump wears extra long ties - surely that's impeachable, as well!
                              Certainly, in the extremely unlikely event of Congress deciding this was an impeachable offense. The truth is, an impeachable offense is whatever Congress decides it is. And Congress has decided, with some justification, that it is an impeachable offence for Trump to have withheld military aid to Ukraine as leverage for information that could be used against his potential rival in the 2020 election. In short, misusing government money for his own personal gain.
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
                                The truth is, an impeachable offense is whatever Congress decides it is.
                                That's what liberals keep saying, but it's not what the Constitution says. The Constitution makes it clear that impeachment is reserved exclusively for cases where the president is guilty of a serious crime.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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