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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    Actually Trump did commit crimes, but you are correct, Congress determines whether or not the President has abused his powers whether those abuses are crimes codified by law or not.
    No, that literally would be an abuse of power and really would cause a constitutional crisis.


    Heck, maybe Pelosi is that far around the bend - but I doubt her members all are.

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      You're suggesting that Congress can impeach the president and remove him from office even if he never actually committed a crime.

      That's insane, and it's directly contrary to a plain reading of the Constitution.
      Wrong. Abuse of power is a crime, but exactly what the abuse details are, are not codified. That is left for Congress to determine. At any rate that is a moot point anyway, because the President, being as corrupt as he is, has committed many crimes.

      Comment


      • Dem Staffer Exchanged Private Emails with Yovanovitch, Contradicting Her Sworn Testimony

        A Democratic congressional staffer exchanged private emails with former ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch two days after the whistleblower complaint that started the impeachment inquiry into President Trump was filed, contradicting Yovanovitch’s sworn testimony, according to emails obtained by Fox News’ Tucker Carlson Tonight.

        The staffer, Laura Carey, reached out to Yovanovitch at the ambassador’s personal email address, a breach of State Department protocol. Yovanovitch testified before the House Intelligence Committee earlier this month that she passed along staffers’ requests to the Legislative Affairs Office at the State Department and never personally responded to Carey.

        However, the emails obtained by Fox show that after Carey sent an email to Yovanovitch on August 14, the former ambassador responded directly to Carey
        .

        https://news.yahoo.com/dem-staffer-e...133159177.html
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post
          Dem Staffer Exchanged Private Emails with Yovanovitch, Contradicting Her Sworn Testimony

          A Democratic congressional staffer exchanged private emails with former ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch two days after the whistleblower complaint that started the impeachment inquiry into President Trump was filed, contradicting Yovanovitch’s sworn testimony, according to emails obtained by Fox News’ Tucker Carlson Tonight.

          The staffer, Laura Carey, reached out to Yovanovitch at the ambassador’s personal email address, a breach of State Department protocol. Yovanovitch testified before the House Intelligence Committee earlier this month that she passed along staffers’ requests to the Legislative Affairs Office at the State Department and never personally responded to Carey.

          However, the emails obtained by Fox show that after Carey sent an email to Yovanovitch on August 14, the former ambassador responded directly to Carey
          .

          https://news.yahoo.com/dem-staffer-e...133159177.html
          Read something similar just an hour or so ago.

          Source: Yovanovitch communicated with Dem staffer on 'delicate' issue after complaint, emails show, despite testimony



          Former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch, a key witness in House Democrats' impeachment inquiry, communicated via her personal email account with a Democratic congressional staffer concerning a "quite delicate" and "time-sensitive" matter — just two days after the whistleblower complaint that kickstarted the inquiry was filed, and a month before the complaint became public, emails obtained Thursday by Fox News' "Tucker Carlson Tonight" show.

          The emails appear to contradict Yovanovitch's deposition on Capitol Hill last month, in which she told U.S. Rep. Lee Zeldin, R-N.Y., about an email she received Aug. 14 from the staffer, Laura Carey — but indicated under oath that she never responded to it.

          The communication came "from the Foreign Affairs Committee," and "they wanted me to come in and talk about, I guess, the circumstances of my departure," Yovanovitch testified, describing Carey's initial email. "I alerted the State Department, because I'm still an employee, and so, matters are generally handled through the State Department."

          Yovanovitch continued: "So, she emailed me. I alerted the State Department and, you know, asked them to handle the correspondence. And, she emailed me again and said, you know, 'Who should I be in touch with?'"

          Fox News is told it is a breach of normal procedure for congressional staff to reach out to a current State Department employee at their personal email address for official business.

          Asked directly whether she responded to Carey's overtures, Yovanovitch testified only that someone in the "Legislative Affairs Office" at the State Department had responded to Carey, to the best of her knowledge.

          Yovanovitch did not indicate that she had responded to Carey's first email in any way, and testified explicitly that she did not reply to Carey's follow-up email concerning whom she should contact at the State Department.

          However, emails obtained by Fox News' "Tucker Carlson Tonight" showed that in fact, Yovanovitch had responded to Carey's initial Aug. 14 email, writing that she "would love to reconnect and look forward to chatting with you."

          On Aug. 14, Carey reached out to Yovanovitch with pleasantries about the last time the two had "crossed paths" — "when I was detailed to" the Senate Foreign Relations Committee — before noting that Carey had resigned from the State Department to join the House Foreign Affairs Committee staff performing oversight work.

          "I'm writing to see if you would have time to meet up for a chat — in particular, I’m hoping to discuss some Ukraine-related oversight questions we are exploring," Carey then wrote to Yovanovitch. "I'd appreciate the chance to ground-truth a few pieces of information with you, some of which are quite delicate/time-sensitive and, thus, we want to make sure we get them right."

          Carey continued: "Could you let me know if you have any time this week or next to connect? Happy to come to a place of your choosing, or if easier, to speak by phone at either of the numbers below. I'm also around this weekend if meeting up over coffee works."

          On Aug. 15, Yovanovitch responded: "Thanks for reaching out — and congratulations on your new job. I would love to reconnect and look forward to chatting with you. I have let EUR [Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs] know that you are interested in talking and they will be in touch with you shortly."

          On Aug. 19, Carey wrote, "Great — thanks for the response and I look forward to hearing from them. As mentioned, it would be ideal to connect this week ... assuming this week is doable for you schedule-wise?"

          Zeldin told Fox News on Thursday it was "greatly concerning" that Yovanovitch may have testified incorrectly that she did not personally respond to Carey's email.

          "I would highly suspect that this Democratic staffer's work was connected in some way to the whistleblower's effort, which has evolved into this impeachment charade," Zeldin said. "We do know that the whistleblower was in contact with [House Intelligence Committee Chairman] Adam Schiff's team before the whistleblower had even hired an attorney or filed a whistleblower complaint even though Schiff had lied to the public originally claiming that there was no contact. Additionally, while the contents of the email from this staffer to Ambassador Yovanovitch clearly state what the conversation would be regarding, Yovanovitch, when I asked her specifically what the staffer was looking to speak about, did not provide these details."

          Zeldin added: "I specifically asked her whether the Democratic staffer was responded to by Yovanovitch or the State Department. It is greatly concerning that Ambassador Yovanovitch didn't answer my question as honestly as she should have, especially while under oath."

          A Democratic House Foreign Affairs Committee spokesperson, however, characterized the outreach as innocuous, saying it was related to Yovanovitch's public ouster as the envoy to Ukraine.

          "The committee wanted to hear from an ambassador whose assignment was cut short under unusual circumstances," the spokesperson said. "This staff outreach was part of monthslong efforts that culminated in the September 9 launch of an investigation into these events. Congress has a constitutional duty to conduct oversight. The State Department doesn’t tell Congress how to do that job, and should be more concerned with the culture of retaliation and impunity that has festered under this administration."

          Neither Carey nor the State Department immediately responded to Fox News' requests for comment.

          President Trump ordered Yovanovitch to be recalled from her post this past May following allegations of partisanship and political bias. Democrats have suggested her service was terminated so that the Trump administration could carry out illicit foreign policy with Ukraine.

          George Kent, a career official at the State Department, told House investigators conducting the impeachment inquiry that a Ukrainian official told him Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani had conspired with Yuriy Lutsenko, the then-prosecutor general of Ukraine, to "throw mud" as part of a “campaign of slander” against Yovanovitch.

          That accusation came out in testimony released earlier Thursday.

          "Well, Mr. Giuliani was almost unmissable starting in mid-March," Kent told investigators. "As the news campaign, or campaign of slander against, not only Ambassador Yovanovitch unfolded, he had a very high media presence, so he was on TV, his Twitter feed ramped up and it was all focused on Ukraine."



          Source

          © Copyright Original Source

          Last edited by rogue06; 11-17-2019, 04:26 PM.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
            Wrong. Abuse of power is a crime, but exactly what the abuse details are, are not codified. That is left for Congress to determine. At any rate that is a moot point anyway, because the President, being as corrupt as he is, has committed many crimes.
            "Abuse of power" is not in the Constitution. Impeachment is explicitly for the commission of "high crimes and misdemeanors", the two examples given are treason and bribery.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
              Wrong. Abuse of power is a crime, but exactly what the abuse details are, are not codified. That is left for Congress to determine. At any rate that is a moot point anyway, because the President, being as corrupt as he is, has committed many crimes.
              If it's not codified, it's not a crime.

              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Read something similar just an hour or so ago.

                Source: Yovanovitch communicated with Dem staffer on 'delicate' issue after complaint, emails show, despite testimony



                Former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch, a key witness in House Democrats' impeachment inquiry, communicated via her personal email account with a Democratic congressional staffer concerning a "quite delicate" and "time-sensitive" matter — just two days after the whistleblower complaint that kickstarted the inquiry was filed, and a month before the complaint became public, emails obtained Thursday by Fox News' "Tucker Carlson Tonight" show.

                The emails appear to contradict Yovanovitch's deposition on Capitol Hill last month, in which she told U.S. Rep. Lee Zeldin, R-N.Y., about an email she received Aug. 14 from the staffer, Laura Carey — but indicated under oath that she never responded to it.

                The communication came "from the Foreign Affairs Committee," and "they wanted me to come in and talk about, I guess, the circumstances of my departure," Yovanovitch testified, describing Carey's initial email. "I alerted the State Department, because I'm still an employee, and so, matters are generally handled through the State Department."

                Yovanovitch continued: "So, she emailed me. I alerted the State Department and, you know, asked them to handle the correspondence. And, she emailed me again and said, you know, 'Who should I be in touch with?'"

                Fox News is told it is a breach of normal procedure for congressional staff to reach out to a current State Department employee at their personal email address for official business.

                Asked directly whether she responded to Carey's overtures, Yovanovitch testified only that someone in the "Legislative Affairs Office" at the State Department had responded to Carey, to the best of her knowledge.

                Yovanovitch did not indicate that she had responded to Carey's first email in any way, and testified explicitly that she did not reply to Carey's follow-up email concerning whom she should contact at the State Department.

                However, emails obtained by Fox News' "Tucker Carlson Tonight" showed that in fact, Yovanovitch had responded to Carey's initial Aug. 14 email, writing that she "would love to reconnect and look forward to chatting with you."

                On Aug. 14, Carey reached out to Yovanovitch with pleasantries about the last time the two had "crossed paths" — "when I was detailed to" the Senate Foreign Relations Committee — before noting that Carey had resigned from the State Department to join the House Foreign Affairs Committee staff performing oversight work.

                "I'm writing to see if you would have time to meet up for a chat — in particular, I’m hoping to discuss some Ukraine-related oversight questions we are exploring," Carey then wrote to Yovanovitch. "I'd appreciate the chance to ground-truth a few pieces of information with you, some of which are quite delicate/time-sensitive and, thus, we want to make sure we get them right."

                Carey continued: "Could you let me know if you have any time this week or next to connect? Happy to come to a place of your choosing, or if easier, to speak by phone at either of the numbers below. I'm also around this weekend if meeting up over coffee works."

                On Aug. 15, Yovanovitch responded: "Thanks for reaching out — and congratulations on your new job. I would love to reconnect and look forward to chatting with you. I have let EUR [Bureau of European and Eurasian Affairs] know that you are interested in talking and they will be in touch with you shortly."

                On Aug. 19, Carey wrote, "Great — thanks for the response and I look forward to hearing from them. As mentioned, it would be ideal to connect this week ... assuming this week is doable for you schedule-wise?"

                Zeldin told Fox News on Thursday it was "greatly concerning" that Yovanovitch may have testified incorrectly that she did not personally respond to Carey's email.

                "I would highly suspect that this Democratic staffer's work was connected in some way to the whistleblower's effort, which has evolved into this impeachment charade," Zeldin said. "We do know that the whistleblower was in contact with [House Intelligence Committee Chairman] Adam Schiff's team before the whistleblower had even hired an attorney or filed a whistleblower complaint even though Schiff had lied to the public originally claiming that there was no contact. Additionally, while the contents of the email from this staffer to Ambassador Yovanovitch clearly state what the conversation would be regarding, Yovanovitch, when I asked her specifically what the staffer was looking to speak about, did not provide these details."

                Zeldin added: "I specifically asked her whether the Democratic staffer was responded to by Yovanovitch or the State Department. It is greatly concerning that Ambassador Yovanovitch didn't answer my question as honestly as she should have, especially while under oath."

                A Democratic House Foreign Affairs Committee spokesperson, however, characterized the outreach as innocuous, saying it was related to Yovanovitch's public ouster as the envoy to Ukraine.

                "The committee wanted to hear from an ambassador whose assignment was cut short under unusual circumstances," the spokesperson said. "This staff outreach was part of monthslong efforts that culminated in the September 9 launch of an investigation into these events. Congress has a constitutional duty to conduct oversight. The State Department doesn’t tell Congress how to do that job, and should be more concerned with the culture of retaliation and impunity that has festered under this administration."

                Neither Carey nor the State Department immediately responded to Fox News' requests for comment.

                President Trump ordered Yovanovitch to be recalled from her post this past May following allegations of partisanship and political bias. Democrats have suggested her service was terminated so that the Trump administration could carry out illicit foreign policy with Ukraine.

                George Kent, a career official at the State Department, told House investigators conducting the impeachment inquiry that a Ukrainian official told him Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani had conspired with Yuriy Lutsenko, the then-prosecutor general of Ukraine, to "throw mud" as part of a “campaign of slander” against Yovanovitch.

                That accusation came out in testimony released earlier Thursday.

                "Well, Mr. Giuliani was almost unmissable starting in mid-March," Kent told investigators. "As the news campaign, or campaign of slander against, not only Ambassador Yovanovitch unfolded, he had a very high media presence, so he was on TV, his Twitter feed ramped up and it was all focused on Ukraine."



                Source

                © Copyright Original Source

                That's what I was referring to - I'm gonna assume you don't need the link now.


                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  "Abuse of power" is not in the Constitution. Impeachment is explicitly for the commission of "high crimes and misdemeanors", the two examples given are treason and bribery.
                  “Abuse of power” may not be a crime. But it is, indisputably, a high crime and misdemeanor as it has been used throughout US history.

                  https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...hment-whitaker
                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
                    “Abuse of power” may not be a crime. But it is, indisputably, a high crime and misdemeanor as it has been used throughout US history.

                    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...hment-whitaker
                    Look, however you want to twist the phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors", the fact of the matter is that it doesn't apply to President Trump on the simple basis that there is no evidence that he did anything deserving of impeachment.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Look, however you want to twist the phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors", the fact of the matter is that it doesn't apply to President Trump on the simple basis that there is no evidence that he did anything deserving of impeachment.
                      Well, that's the understanding of unethical, unpatriotic, right wingers like Jim Jordan and yourself, who take the side of Putin and Russia over our allies in Ukraine, but your understanding is wrong. Congress determines what abuse of power is and if there was any abuse of power on the part of the president.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        If it's not codified, it's not a crime.
                        Call it what you will, it's an abuse of power. Withholding the approriated military aid in and of itself, though not codified, was an abuse of power.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Dem Staffer Exchanged Private Emails with Yovanovitch, Contradicting Her Sworn Testimony

                          A Democratic congressional staffer exchanged private emails with former ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch two days after the whistleblower complaint that started the impeachment inquiry into President Trump was filed, contradicting Yovanovitch’s sworn testimony, according to emails obtained by Fox News’ Tucker Carlson Tonight.

                          The staffer, Laura Carey, reached out to Yovanovitch at the ambassador’s personal email address, a breach of State Department protocol. Yovanovitch testified before the House Intelligence Committee earlier this month that she passed along staffers’ requests to the Legislative Affairs Office at the State Department and never personally responded to Carey.

                          However, the emails obtained by Fox show that after Carey sent an email to Yovanovitch on August 14, the former ambassador responded directly to Carey
                          .

                          https://news.yahoo.com/dem-staffer-e...133159177.html
                          Oh my goodness, they said hello to each other. Lock them up!

                          Comment


                          • Democrats are signaling that they're not all in lockstep concerning impeachment.

                            Appearing on Fox News Channel’s Sunday Morning Futures, Democrat Rep. Jeff Van Drew (NJ), who opposes impeachment, revealed some Democrats are privately expressing “concern” about the impeachment inquiry against President Donald Trump.

                            A partial transcript is as follows:
                            MARIA BARTIROMO: We’re expecting an impeachment vote sometime in December. How will you vote?

                            REP. JEFF VAN DREW: I would imagine I’ll be voting “no.” Now, I always have a codicil if there’s something new, something we haven’t heard, something that really rises to the level of treason or a high crime, that would be different. But we don’t see that. We see little different variations, hearsay, discussions that somebody heard something that somebody else said. Impeachment, as you know, our founding fathers had vigorous debates over whether they would even allow impeachment in the Constitution. You don’t disenfranchise voters, millions upon millions of voters. Voters choose their leaders in America.

                            BARTIROMO: Are you hearing from some of your colleagues in some of the states that President Trump won that they may also vote “no?” Are you hearing some concerns amongst your colleagues or are you sort of a lone wolf in all of this?

                            REP. VAN DREW: I don’t know how other folks will vote, because in all honesty, originally, I thought there were going to be a few more, not that it matters to me if I’m one or I’m 101. I do what I believe is right. There is some discussion among some of them quietly, privately, of concern, certainly. What I’m hearing out in the street is with most people is, they’re kind of tired, they’re kind of worn out, they’re kind of bored, most folks, and they really want to move on. Unless there’s something new and amazing, we know the end game here.

                            https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...m-impeachment/
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              Call it what you will, it's an abuse of power. Withholding the approriated military aid in and of itself, though not codified, was an abuse of power.
                              But Jim, Ukraine got the aid without any investigation. And three times now the Ukrainian President made clear that aid was never tied to any investigation. Schiff's response to that last week was basically that Zelensky lied.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                But Jim, Ukraine got the aid without any investigation. And three times now the Ukrainian President made clear that aid was never tied to any investigation. Schiff's response to that last week was basically that Zelensky lied.
                                Furthermore, several of the "witnesses" have said that Ukraine was never even aware that aid had been temporarily suspended.
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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