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Take This Impeachment And Shove It...

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  • yep the questions from the Democrats are all about their false narrative. not about what was actualy said.

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    • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      Some of them are first hand witnesses. But Trump is illegally obstructing justice by prohibiting many of the first-hand witnesses from testifying despite congressional subpoenas (e.g. Bolton, Mulvaney etc). Bolton currently has a case before the courts to confirm that he is legally obligated to obey the congressional subpoena to testify despite Trump's obstructive acts to demand that he not.
      Since the POTUS does have the power of executive privilege your use of "illegally obstructing justice" sounds at the very least overwrought.

      As for your example...

      In the case of Bolton, he is no longer part of the Trump Administration so Trump can hardly stop him from testifying if he wants to. He doesn't.

      Bolton announced that he wanted a federal court to first rule on a lawsuit by his former deputy seeking a court ruling wrt the opposing claims by the Administration and Congress. His former assistant, Charles Kupperman, who was also subpoenaed filed a lawsuit in federal court requesting a judge to rule on the issue. As USA Today put it

      Source: John Bolton's ex-deputy Kupperman defies subpoena, doesn't show up for testimony in Trump impeachment probe


      ...

      The lawsuit, filed Friday in U.S. District Court, asked a judge to decide whether he should testify because he's worried any decision he makes "will inflict grave Constitutional injury on either the House or the President."

      Kupperman noted in the 17-page filing that if he defies Trump, he could hurt the president's ability to receive confidential advice from top aides. But if he defies the House subpoena, he could impede their constitutional duty to investigate potential impeachment and could be subject to criminal penalties for contempt. Kupperman said he didn't take a position on whether the executive or legislative branch should prevail, but that the judicial branch should resolve the dispute.



      Source

      © Copyright Original Source



      As a result, all of a sudden, Schiff and his gang (who had been darkly threatening him that he better testify or at the very least he'll be cited for contempt & who had been telling the media how instrumental his testimony is) dropped the subpoena like a hot potato.

      It's almost like they have grave doubts that the courts will rule with them on this and if they don't then it'll be impossible for them to charge Trump on contempt of Congress.

      So it looks like Congress won't be actually pressuring Kupperman, and in extension, Bolton and IIRC Mick Mulvaney as well, into testifying. But if they drop the subpoenas then that will still make it increasingly difficult to claim Trump is guilty of contempt for blocking subpoenas that were dropped.

      Last edited by rogue06; 11-13-2019, 03:20 PM.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • I'm not sure whether Dimbulb is playing ignorant and hoping none of the rest of us keep up with current events, or if he's genuinely ignorant.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          I'm not sure whether Dimbulb is playing ignorant and hoping none of the rest of us keep up with current events, or if he's genuinely ignorant.
          Keep in mind that he lives half-way around the world, and considers comedians to be legitimate sources of news. I'm guessing the ignorance is genuine.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            Keep in mind that he lives half-way around the world, and considers comedians to be legitimate sources of news. I'm guessing the ignorance is genuine.
            Hey there! He'll have you know that he also listens to Young Turks and talks to his friends (who happen to all agree with him) about just this sort of... um, stuff.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • Ken Starr says there's no hope of impeachment because there was no crime.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Ken Starr says there's no hope of impeachment because there was no crime.
                That's not what people want to hear, so what he says can be safely disregarded.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  That's not what people want to hear, so what he says can be safely disregarded.
                  That's why Democrats have been floating the idea that a crime is not a necessary precondition for impeachment regardless of what the Constitution says.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Word is even Justin Amash wasn't impressed with today's hearing.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      Word is even Justin Amash wasn't impressed with today's hearing.
                      I watched most of it, what came though - clearly - was that all the claims of Trump doing this or that were based on second and third hand information. Neither witness had any first hand knowledge of wrongdoing by Trump. If these were their star witness the Dems are dead in the water.

                      https://www.facebook.com/RantNationB...2528181989132/
                      Last edited by seer; 11-13-2019, 07:25 PM.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post
                        I watched most of it, what came though - clearly - was that all the claims of Trump doing this or that were based on second and third hand information.
                        Republicans: The only witnesses that count are people who spoke directly to the president.

                        Also Republicans: No one who spoke directly to the president will be allowed to testify.


                        Fortunately in this case, I don't think Obstruction of Justice is going to be able to save them. The evidence with regard to the crimes committed is already overwhelming.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Neither witness had any first hand knowledge of wrongdoing by Trump.
                          They didn't even have second or third hand knowledge of wrongdoing. When John Ratcliffe asked them directly if either one could name an impeachable offense committed by the President, neither one said a word.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
                            No it actually only brings inconsistent parts of his testimony into question. People lie but people don't lie about everything so if testimony is found to be incorrect about one thing it can be generally assumed that anything else that conflicts with other witnesses may be questionable AND any other unique detail that support the witnesses narrative is also questionable.

                            So if Sondland said anything else that is unique to his testimony and supports Trumps innocence then it's no longer reliable but everything else in line with other testimonies will still be regarded.
                            Goes to credibility. Once there's a proven lie under oath, all credibility goes - and all testimony comes into question.

                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Word is even Justin Amash wasn't impressed with today's hearing.
                              Oh come on - Jordan asking Taylor 'And you're their star witness?' was priceless...


                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                                Goes to credibility. Once there's a proven lie under oath, all credibility goes - and all testimony comes into question.
                                It takes a great deal more than one proven lie to lose all credibility with the jury. Unless their whole testimony was just that one lie.

                                Comment

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