Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Take This Impeachment And Shove It...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post


    The collusion delusion just never let's go does it?
    It's the gift that keeps on giving, especially when it can now be used to cover up crimes of the previous administration and shut anyone down inquiring about those crimes.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seanD View Post
      It's the gift that keeps on giving, especially when it can now be used to cover up crimes of the previous administration and shut anyone down inquiring about those crimes.
      You mean like the investigation that the President and his DOJ just had done with respect to Hillary Clintons alleged crimes that you all screamed about during the election in which no crimes were found. Talk about being taken in by fake news.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
        You mean like the investigation that the President and his DOJ just had done with respect to Hillary Clintons alleged crimes that you all screamed about during the election in which no crimes were found. Talk about being taken in by fake news.
        No, we're talking about two different subjects.
        "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

        Comment


        • The first set of Lev Parnas documents have been released by House Judiciary. Here is a note from Lev confirming that the goal was to get Zelensky to announce investigations into the Bidens.

          Bad news for the bad guys :).

          ETA: Here's some WhatsApp messages about tracking Marie Yavonovitch's movement's and hinting at planning her murder(!).

          Beyond sickening.

          Assuming these are legit anyone ready to get off the Trump Train yet?
          Last edited by DivineOb; 01-14-2020, 06:09 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by seanD View Post
            No, we're talking about two different subjects.
            I know, but your claims of criminal wrong doing applied to both. What makes you think your alleged claims of criminality against Obama are any more real than your claims against Clinton turned out to be?

            Comment


            • On the merits of impeachment:

              Here's a letter Giuliani sent to Zelensky (and apparently copied to Lev Parnas), asking for a meeting May 13 or 14. Giuliani takes pains to note that he is asking as Trump's personal attorney, not in pursuit of Trump's presidential duties, and that the meeting has Trump's full knowledge and consent. We know the context of the proposed meeting because Giuliani was telling NYT reporters around May 9 that he was traveling to Ukraine in order to push for investigations into Biden and Burisma for his client (Trump):

              Source: Rudy Giuliani Plans Ukraine Trip to Push for Inquiries That Could Help Trump. Ken Vogel. NYT. 2019.05.09

              Mr. Giuliani’s plans create the remarkable scene of a lawyer for the president of the United States pressing a foreign government to pursue investigations that Mr. Trump’s allies hope could help him in his re-election campaign. And it comes after Mr. Trump spent more than half of his term facing questions about whether his 2016 campaign conspired with a foreign power.

              “We’re not meddling in an election, we’re meddling in an investigation, which we have a right to do,” Mr. Giuliani said in an interview on Thursday when asked about the parallel to the special counsel’s inquiry.


              “There’s nothing illegal about it,” he said. “Somebody could say it’s improper. And this isn’t foreign policy — I’m asking them to do an investigation that they’re doing already and that other people are telling them to stop. And I’m going to give them reasons why they shouldn’t stop it because that information will be very, very helpful to my client, and may turn out to be helpful to my government.”

              © Copyright Original Source




              EORxb-rWoAM-1Tl.jpg

              Other documents released by HPSCI today indicate that Parnas and Robert F. Hyde, an American Trump ally running for Congress, were having Ambassador Yovanovitch's movements in Ukraine tracked and Hyde is on record talking about people in Ukraine "willing to help if you'd like a price" and how "[g]uess you can do anything in the Ukraine with money".

              Trump personally gave John Dowd permission to represent Parnas and Fruman, who have said they were working directly with Giuliani in Ukraine.

              Upshot: Giuliani, in May, was seeking a meeting with Zelensky to restart investigations into the Bidens as a personal and explicitly not as a presidential matter for Trump. Parnas, Giuliani, Trump, and others would continue to pressure the Zelensky administration for the public announcement of this investigation through September 7, when Trump told Sondland that Zelensky had to "get in front of the cameras".

              --Sam
              "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

              Comment


              • I predict this thread will become a ghost town really quick. We'll see :).

                Comment


                • What laws, if any, is the Trump administration being accused of breaking?
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • As always, required reading for anybody who wants to understand what's really going on:

                    Yesterday’s ridiculous, albeit proactive, New York Times narrative about Russians hacking Burisma now makes sense. Today the Lawfare team (Mary McCord et al) within Adam Schiff’s impeachment crew send additional files of evidence (pdf below) to be included in the impeachment articles constructed by HJC Chairman Jerry Nadler.

                    ...

                    It is all coordinated. The “new evidence” relates to information turned over by Lev Parnas, an SDNY indicted former associate of Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani. The Lawfare purpose is to bolster their premise that President Trump was trying to force Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate Joe Biden’s corrupt activity around the Ukrainian company Burisma.

                    The Lawfare crew behind Schiff waited until the last minute to push the new “evidence” because they didn’t want republicans to deconstruct it during the impeachment evidence gathering phase. Aditionally, the Lawfare crew anticipate a Trump impeachment defense surrounding actual evidence of the Biden corruption, which makes the Trump request to Zelensky valid.

                    So the proactive democrat strategy was/is to use the New York Times presentation of Russia hacking Burisma to negate the provenance of the evidence against the Bidens. In essence, to cast doubt upon any documents that would show Joe and Hunter Biden participating in an actual influence and money-laundering scheme.

                    ...

                    The SDNY created legal leverage upon Lev Parnas using the familiar strategy of charging “FARA violations”, as noted in the background of the House explanation.

                    The purpose was/is to extract anything from Parnas that could be twisted or construed to show evidence that Rudy Giuliani was working on behalf of President Trump to pressure Ukraine into investigating Burisma, Joe Biden and Hunter Biden.

                    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...nce-to-nadler/
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DivineOb View Post
                      I predict this thread will become a ghost town really quick. We'll see :).
                      I am not optimistic, as that would require that new information be absorbed when so many still have not incorporated the old, even after extensive repetition.

                      --Sam
                      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        As always, required reading for anybody who wants to understand what's really going on:
                        How nefarious of them to insinuate actions and motivations that Giuliani publicly asserted in May. How clever to release documents showing Trump associates planning to pressure Zelensky for investigations and stalking a US ambassador.

                        A true conspiracy.

                        --Sam
                        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                          How nefarious of them to insinuate actions and motivations that Giuliani publicly asserted in May. How clever to release documents showing Trump associates planning to pressure Zelensky for investigations and stalking a US ambassador.

                          A true conspiracy.

                          --Sam
                          Let's wait for the cross examination and vetting process before making any declarations about the quality of this evidence. I mean, a handwritten note with little asterisks on it? What, like he was going to forget and had to jot it down on hotel stationary? Who knows when it was really written, and for what purpose.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Let's wait for the cross examination and vetting process before making any declarations about the quality of this evidence. I mean, a handwritten note with little asterisks on it? What, like he was going to forget and had to jot it down on hotel stationary? Who knows when it was really written, and for what purpose.
                            Good to see you on board with calling witnesses in the Senate trial.

                            --Sam
                            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                              Good to see you on board with calling witnesses in the Senate trial.

                              --Sam
                              I was never against it, at least in principle. The question has always been whether or not the Democrats will be able to deliver a compelling enough opening argument to convince a simple majority of the Senate that the trial should go forward.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                I was never against it, at least in principle.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by CivilDiscourse, Today, 06:39 PM
                                2 responses
                                8 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by seer, Today, 02:30 PM
                                6 responses
                                32 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by whag, Today, 02:17 PM
                                2 responses
                                18 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Started by Cow Poke, Today, 01:58 PM
                                8 responses
                                27 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by CivilDiscourse, Today, 07:03 AM
                                64 responses
                                229 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Working...
                                X