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Take This Impeachment And Shove It...

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  • Originally posted by dirtfloor View Post
    Labour were hopeless. I did not vote for them, not have I ever voted for them. My own politics are centre-right.
    That's a European "centre-right", correct? So would you say you're more aligned with Adolf Hitler, or Joseph Stalin?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      That's a European "centre-right", correct? So would you say you're more aligned with Adolf Hitler, or Joseph Stalin?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        He's Scottish. I think he wants to vote for Scottexit.
        I toured Scotland in 1975, there used to be men there...

        braveheart2_758_427_81_s.jpg
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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        • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
          Don't worry your little head, Jimmy... I'm sure firstfloor appreciates my sense of humor.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by seer View Post
            I toured Scotland in 1975, there used to be men there...

            [ATTACH=CONFIG]41605[/ATTACH]
            But they wear skirts!
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
              This is an impeachment, it’s pretty constitutional.
              Show me a subpoena power over the Exec by the Legislature in the Constitution. I said 'extraconstitutional' not 'unconstitutional.


              The only relevant finding from Nixon that may be applicable here is that executive privilege isn’t absolute.
              Few things are in American jurisprudence.

              The Nixon decision is about weighing the need for executive privilege against the potential probative value the subpoena represents to a criminal proceeding. In fact Nixon’s argument here was essentially that executive privilege is superior to everything except impeachment.
              Not exactly - national security could still override the subpoena.

              In any case, Supreme Court decisions can not apply to impeachment proceedings. It’s not just a separation of powers violation and unconstitutional but even viewed in the context of the entire legal structure it can’t work since laws only travel down.
              The Supreme Court begs to differ - this is established case law from the Nixon inquiry. The Court presumes it has the power to settle disputes between branches even in impeachment - but that its power to do so is limited.

              So while the house could seek assistance from the courts to enforce their impeachment subpoenas, the courts don’t have the jurisdiction to mediate it. Which is exactly what the courts said when it was previously brought to them.
              The Court has ALREADY established this jurisdiction. This is established case law which carries precedent. You're simply wrong here.
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Quill Sword

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              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                That's a European "centre-right", correct? So would you say you're more aligned with Adolf Hitler, or Joseph Stalin?
                I’d have to go with Adolf.
                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                “not all there” - you know who you are

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                • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  Easily resolved if this is seen to be a problem (it really isn't), namely Trump can unblock key witnesses.
                  As we now see the House Democrats obviously didn't think they were very important.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                  • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                    Show me a subpoena power over the Exec by the Legislature in the Constitution. I said 'extraconstitutional' not 'unconstitutional.


                    Few things are in American jurisprudence.

                    Not exactly - national security could still override the subpoena.

                    The Supreme Court begs to differ - this is established case law from the Nixon inquiry. The Court presumes it has the power to settle disputes between branches even in impeachment - but that its power to do so is limited.


                    The Court has ALREADY established this jurisdiction. This is established case law which carries precedent. You're simply wrong here.
                    Impeachment power is agreed to contain all other powers that are necessary to carry it out. It includes subpoena.

                    Either we aren’t talking about the same case or you’ve misunderstood it. Nixon’s case was about executive privilege in relation to a grand jury subpoena in a criminal matter. The direct answer to this question is what becomes case law, not the whole judgement. The judges tend to carry on about a related matter or speculate about some hypothetical situation but none of that is binding.

                    I don’t know what you mean here. The court can answer constitutional questions, they can’t provide instructions on how a constitutional power is to be used unless the constitution is providing those instructions. For example the court can’t tell the house that the obstruction article isn’t valid because it didn’t do this or that. They have no jurisdiction there.
                    Last edited by Watermelon; 12-23-2019, 05:40 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Watermelon View Post
                      Impeachment power is agreed to contain all other powers that are necessary to carry it out. It includes subpoena.

                      Either we aren’t talking about the same case or you’ve misunderstood it. Nixon’s case was about executive privilege in relation to a grand jury subpoena in a criminal matter. The direct answer to this question is what becomes case law, not the whole judgement. The judges tend to carry on about a related matter or speculate about some hypothetical situation but none of that is binding.

                      I don’t know what you mean here. The court can answer constitutional questions, they can’t provide instructions on how a constitutional power is to be used unless the constitution is providing those instructions. For example the court can’t tell the house that the obstruction article isn’t valid because it didn’t do this or that. They have no jurisdiction there.
                      No, I think you're looking at the wrong case. In the Nixon inquiry the exact same issue arose. The House appealed both the claim of exec privvilege and the defiance of the (actually valid) subpoenas. The Court decided it could decide the dispute, exec privilege did exist BUT the House's subpoenas in that case were superior. Nixon subsquently obeyed the subpoena, released the tapes and resigned.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        No, I think you're looking at the wrong case. In the Nixon inquiry the exact same issue arose. The House appealed both the claim of exec privvilege and the defiance of the (actually valid) subpoenas. The Court decided it could decide the dispute, exec privilege did exist BUT the House's subpoenas in that case were superior. Nixon subsquently obeyed the subpoena, released the tapes and resigned.
                        The citation for the case I’m referring to is:
                        United States v. Nixon, 418 U.S. 683

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Right... Democrats are so worried about Trump delaying impeachment that they have put the articles on indefinite hold instead of sending them immediately to the Senate.
                          Why would the Democrats send the articles immediately to the Senate when the leaders of the Senate have publicly stated that they will NOT be impartial - in direct violation of their oath.
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            As we now see the House Democrats obviously didn't think they were very important.
                            The reverse is true. The WH unblocking key witnesses is SO important that Pelosi is reluctant to allow the Senate trial to proceed until it does unblock key witnesses.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • A trial without witnesses and documents to confirm witness testimony is not a trial. McConnell wants a show, not a trial and therefore the Dems have no choice but to allow the pressure to build. The cries of “witch hunt” will grow louder but Pelosi has the strength of character to resist. The American public want to see that justice is done and they are not fooled by McConnell’s antics.
                              “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                              “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                              “not all there” - you know who you are

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                                A trial without witnesses and documents to confirm witness testimony is not a trial. McConnell wants a show, not a trial and therefore the Dems have no choice but to allow the pressure to build. The cries of “witch hunt” will grow louder but Pelosi has the strength of character to resist. The American public want to see that justice is done and they are not fooled by McConnell’s antics.
                                71% of americans believe that the president aides should have to testify. I'm assuming many of those are republicans. I wonder what percentage of tweb republicans agree.

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