Originally posted by dirtfloor
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Take This Impeachment And Shove It...
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostHe's Scottish. I think he wants to vote for Scottexit.
braveheart2_758_427_81_s.jpgAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by JimLamebrain View PostSome may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by seer View PostI toured Scotland in 1975, there used to be men there...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]41605[/ATTACH]Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostThis is an impeachment, it’s pretty constitutional.
The only relevant finding from Nixon that may be applicable here is that executive privilege isn’t absolute.
The Nixon decision is about weighing the need for executive privilege against the potential probative value the subpoena represents to a criminal proceeding. In fact Nixon’s argument here was essentially that executive privilege is superior to everything except impeachment.
In any case, Supreme Court decisions can not apply to impeachment proceedings. It’s not just a separation of powers violation and unconstitutional but even viewed in the context of the entire legal structure it can’t work since laws only travel down.
So while the house could seek assistance from the courts to enforce their impeachment subpoenas, the courts don’t have the jurisdiction to mediate it. Which is exactly what the courts said when it was previously brought to them."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThat's a European "centre-right", correct? So would you say you're more aligned with Adolf Hitler, or Joseph Stalin?“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostEasily resolved if this is seen to be a problem (it really isn't), namely Trump can unblock key witnesses.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostShow me a subpoena power over the Exec by the Legislature in the Constitution. I said 'extraconstitutional' not 'unconstitutional.
Few things are in American jurisprudence.
Not exactly - national security could still override the subpoena.
The Supreme Court begs to differ - this is established case law from the Nixon inquiry. The Court presumes it has the power to settle disputes between branches even in impeachment - but that its power to do so is limited.
The Court has ALREADY established this jurisdiction. This is established case law which carries precedent. You're simply wrong here.
Either we aren’t talking about the same case or you’ve misunderstood it. Nixon’s case was about executive privilege in relation to a grand jury subpoena in a criminal matter. The direct answer to this question is what becomes case law, not the whole judgement. The judges tend to carry on about a related matter or speculate about some hypothetical situation but none of that is binding.
I don’t know what you mean here. The court can answer constitutional questions, they can’t provide instructions on how a constitutional power is to be used unless the constitution is providing those instructions. For example the court can’t tell the house that the obstruction article isn’t valid because it didn’t do this or that. They have no jurisdiction there.Last edited by Watermelon; 12-23-2019, 05:40 PM.
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostImpeachment power is agreed to contain all other powers that are necessary to carry it out. It includes subpoena.
Either we aren’t talking about the same case or you’ve misunderstood it. Nixon’s case was about executive privilege in relation to a grand jury subpoena in a criminal matter. The direct answer to this question is what becomes case law, not the whole judgement. The judges tend to carry on about a related matter or speculate about some hypothetical situation but none of that is binding.
I don’t know what you mean here. The court can answer constitutional questions, they can’t provide instructions on how a constitutional power is to be used unless the constitution is providing those instructions. For example the court can’t tell the house that the obstruction article isn’t valid because it didn’t do this or that. They have no jurisdiction there."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostNo, I think you're looking at the wrong case. In the Nixon inquiry the exact same issue arose. The House appealed both the claim of exec privvilege and the defiance of the (actually valid) subpoenas. The Court decided it could decide the dispute, exec privilege did exist BUT the House's subpoenas in that case were superior. Nixon subsquently obeyed the subpoena, released the tapes and resigned.
United States v. Nixon, 418 U.S. 683
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostRight... Democrats are so worried about Trump delaying impeachment that they have put the articles on indefinite hold instead of sending them immediately to the Senate.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAs we now see the House Democrats obviously didn't think they were very important.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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A trial without witnesses and documents to confirm witness testimony is not a trial. McConnell wants a show, not a trial and therefore the Dems have no choice but to allow the pressure to build. The cries of “witch hunt” will grow louder but Pelosi has the strength of character to resist. The American public want to see that justice is done and they are not fooled by McConnell’s antics.“I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
“And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
“not all there” - you know who you are
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostA trial without witnesses and documents to confirm witness testimony is not a trial. McConnell wants a show, not a trial and therefore the Dems have no choice but to allow the pressure to build. The cries of “witch hunt” will grow louder but Pelosi has the strength of character to resist. The American public want to see that justice is done and they are not fooled by McConnell’s antics.
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