Originally posted by Mountain Man
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Take This Impeachment And Shove It...
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"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIs not. Until it is demonstrated that the investigation is "due and proper" there is no obstruction. That the impeachment inquiry dropped its requests rather than attempt to enforce them shows me that the requests were not "due and proper."
ETA: Which is still, by the by, under "obstruction of justice", not the Democrats' phantom "obstruction of congress" charge.
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI'm curious, does the right to a speedy trial come into play here?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIs not. Until it is demonstrated that the investigation is "due and proper" there is no obstruction. That the impeachment inquiry dropped its requests rather than attempt to enforce them shows me that the requests were not "due and proper."
ETA: Which is still, by the by, under "obstruction of justice", not the Democrats' phantom "obstruction of congress" charge.
Instead of going to court, they just hit trump with obstruction for every subpoena not complied with and used it to form another article of impeachment. Which is what they did. If trump had a valid reason for not complying then it’s on trump to start court proceedings to prove it. Until then the democrats can show obstruction of congress, which is also a crime.
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostI guess my post has to do with purpose. What’s the subpoena for? Obviously they want documents or testimony but they know that trump won’t comply so they would have to drag it out in court and rather than doing that they decided to use it for something else.
Instead of going to court, they just hit trump with obstruction for every subpoena not complied with and used it to form another article of impeachment. Which is what they did. If trump had a valid reason for not complying then it’s on trump to start court proceedings to prove it. Until then the democrats can show obstruction of congress, which is also a crime.
It is up to the prosecution to make their case, and if they believe they are being obstructed, there is a judicial remedy for that.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostI guess my post has to do with purpose. What’s the subpoena for? Obviously they want documents or testimony but they know that trump won’t comply so they would have to drag it out in court and rather than doing that they decided to use it for something else.
Instead of going to court, they just hit trump with obstruction for every subpoena not complied with and used it to form another article of impeachment. Which is what they did. If trump had a valid reason for not complying then it’s on trump to start court proceedings to prove it. Until then the democrats can show obstruction of congress, which is also a crime.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostI guess my post has to do with purpose. What’s the subpoena for? Obviously they want documents or testimony but they know that trump won’t comply so they would have to drag it out in court and rather than doing that they decided to use it for something else.
Instead of going to court, they just hit trump with obstruction for every subpoena not complied with and used it to form another article of impeachment. Which is what they did. If trump had a valid reason for not complying then it’s on trump to start court proceedings to prove it. Until then the democrats can show obstruction of congress, which is also a crime.
And, no, it's not. You (general) can commit obstruction of justice in relation to a congressional committee's LAWFUL actions - but there is no such crime as obstruction of congress.
In a House full of lawyers, this is damning. They wouldn't have accidentally said 'congress' meaning 'justice' - so, why the wording? Most reasonable conclusion is that they KNEW the could not prove the elements of obstruction of justice."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIn a fair trial the accussed doesn't get to block the testimony of witnesses and other evidence against them.
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostI guess my post has to do with purpose. What’s the subpoena for? Obviously they want documents or testimony but they know that trump won’t comply so they would have to drag it out in court and rather than doing that they decided to use it for something else.
Instead of going to court, they just hit trump with obstruction for every subpoena not complied with and used it to form another article of impeachment. Which is what they did. If trump had a valid reason for not complying then it’s on trump to start court proceedings to prove it. Until then the democrats can show obstruction of congress, which is also a crime.
The remedy, of course, for when you have two conflicting rights (Executive Privilege v. Congressional oversight/subpoena power) is to let the courts sort it out. That has been the solution for hundreds of years. And such cases can be expedited so that a decision can be made rather quickly.
Now the Democrats repeatedly proclaimed that they couldn't wait for the courts because Trump is such an existential threat -- a clear and present danger -- that they had to move as quickly as possible to impeach him..
But the very fact that they are now holding up sending the articles of impeachment to the Senate incontrovertibly demonstrates that there is no such urgency. If there was the Senate would already have the articles of impeachment in their hands.
IOW, this claimed need for speed was nothing but yet another lie and they have no excuse whatsoever for not turning to the courts for adjudication.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThe problem of course all presidents have the right to Executive Privilege (it is explicitly spelled out in the Constitution) and can use it to resist Congressional subpoenas. I can't think of a single Administration that has not exerted this right at some point.
The remedy, of course, for when you have two conflicting rights (Executive Privilege v. Congressional oversight/subpoena power) is to let the courts sort it out. That has been the solution for hundreds of years. And such cases can be expedited so that a decision can be made rather quickly.
Now the Democrats repeatedly proclaimed that they couldn't wait for the courts because Trump is such an existential threat -- a clear and present danger -- that they had to move as quickly as possible to impeach him..
But the very fact that they are now holding up sending the articles of impeachment to the Senate incontrovertibly demonstrates that there is no such urgency. If there was the Senate would already have the articles of impeachment in their hands.
IOW, this claimed need for speed was nothing but yet another lie and they have no excuse whatsoever for not turning to the courts for adjudication."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostPsst! Exec privilege isn't in the Constitution.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostI guess my post has to do with purpose. What’s the subpoena for? Obviously they want documents or testimony but they know that trump won’t comply so they would have to drag it out in court and rather than doing that they decided to use it for something else.
Instead of going to court, they just hit trump with obstruction for every subpoena not complied with and used it to form another article of impeachment. Which is what they did. If trump had a valid reason for not complying then it’s on trump to start court proceedings to prove it. Until then the democrats can show obstruction of congress, which is also a crime."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostDid you even bother to read 1505? It specifically refers to the Antitrust Civil Process Act which has nothing to do with an impeachment inquiry.
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