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Elizabeth Warren's Pregnant Pause

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  • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Nearly 4 years ago was a long time ago. I’m lucky I remember where my toothbrush is at, let alone a nearly 4 year ago thread. Anyway, yeah it did Sam. I read through the developing story and that’s where it started and it ended no where near that start.

    I hope you enjoy your state approved Church.

    That's a pretty incoherent argument considering that the thing starting this tangent was you demanding of Jim an answer of what choice voters had between Clinton and Trump concerning religious freedom.

    That kind of presupposes knowledge of their policies four years ago!

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sam View Post
      That's a pretty incoherent argument considering that the thing starting this tangent was you demanding of Jim an answer of what choice voters had between Clinton and Trump concerning religious freedom.

      That kind of presupposes knowledge of their policies four years ago!

      --Sam
      And Sam says, “You took part in this conversation!”

      That he has no links and simply believes it took place. How wonderful.

      The applauds of the crowd loving the idea of using the government to force compliance says quite a bit Sam. Rather you want to admit it or not.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

      Comment


      • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
        My main goal is simply pointing out that flips on a president in office and out, can be drastically different. I’m pretty sure the high regards of Lincoln is the fact he was assassinated and became a martyr figure and legend. Truman found himself in a very turbulent time in our history. He faced one of the hardest choices a president likely had to make:

        1. Invade, an opinion that likely would have made Stalingrad seem like a picnic and likely would have turned Japan into a graveyard.

        2. Starve them out. Japan is far from self sufficient and this likely would have killed hundreds of thousands and lasted years.

        3. Hit them with nukes and shock and awe them to surrender.

        I know you’ll disagree, but I think he made the decision that saved the most allied troops and Japanese. He took the one that was the best of three terrible choices.
        Option 3 was actually three separate options:

        3a. Nuke a city
        3b. Nuke a military installation
        3c. Nuke an uninhabited area

        Truman's preferred option was 3b. Unfortunately weather conditions meant the chosen military target was impractical.
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Roy View Post
          I looked before I posted. Truman is considered to have been a better president than all but one of those that have succeeded him [1]. Most presidents have had lower than 36% approval at some point during their terms[2]. Also, approval ratings don't necessarily tell you how a president is viewed in comparison to previous presidents.
          So did I, evidently you didn’t notice that he went from the second tier, to the first, later on.



          Now what I said before:

          ...Truman had some of the lowest poll numbers ever...

          Is this statement true or false?

          Has the opinion of Truman improved after his time in office?
          Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-16-2019, 01:08 PM.
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Roy View Post
            Option 3 was actually three separate options:

            3a. Nuke a city
            3b. Nuke a military installation
            3c. Nuke an uninhabited area

            Truman's preferred option was 3b. Unfortunately weather conditions meant the chosen military target was impractical.
            So nuke them and shock and awe them to surrender, just as I said.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              So did I, evidently you didn’t notice that he went from the second tier, to the first, later on.
              Of course I did.

              I also noticed that 2nd tier is nowhere near to being among the worst.
              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                Of course I did.

                I also noticed that 2nd tier is nowhere near to being among the worst.
                Scores of people, still die.
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                  Clinton proposed that Christians operating businesses should not be exempt from anti-discrimination laws.

                  Trump proposed massive surveillance of Muslim communities, curtailing the ability of Muslims to include religious rules in civil disputes with the consent of both parties -- a legal accommodation Christian and Jewish sects enjoy --, and proposed the outright ban of Muslim travel to the United States.

                  A non-bigoted person who was interested in religious liberty as a principle and not merely out of paranoid self-interest shouldn't have a difficult choice between those two.

                  --Sam
                  That is, perhaps, if you want to totally avoid the issue of abortion.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    Please read again. Not talking about the election. And for the 1000th time, voting for Hillary or Clinton was a rock and a hard place decision. There was no 'right vote' in 2016.

                    However - Proclaiming Trump 'God's man' and talking about a divine mandate on him and standing behind him no matter WHAT he does, cheering him on NO MATTER WHAT - IS the problem I'm talking about.

                    And that is why I not talking about Hillary. Evangelical Christians don't deny the truth when she does something wrong. They don't cover it up. They don't echo conspiracy theories on their facebook pages to deflect attention from her misdeeds.

                    They ARE doing that with Donald Trump.


                    JIm
                    A few examples showing how far some are willing to go... Jerry Falwell Jr. was asked: Is there anything President Trump could do that would endanger that support from you or other evangelical leaders?". The very short answer was: "No." https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...5f4_story.html

                    Sarah Sanders has said 'God wanted Trump to be president': https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47066659 Franklin Graham also believes that is the case: https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael...-put-him-there

                    And here is a great example of how it sound when you cannot really allow yourself to be critical towards Trump:

                    “Some evangelicals may disagree with the president’s decision,” Mr. Jeffress said, “but I guarantee you there is not one evangelical supporter of the president who would switch their vote and support Elizabeth Warren or Joe Biden over a Syria decision.” https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/u...criticism.html
                    Note the expression "a Syria decision"...

                    Luckily not all evangelicals reason along those lines but some, even some of the leaders, think along those simplistic lines.
                    "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                      A few examples showing how far some are willing to go... Jerry Falwell Jr. was asked: Is there anything President Trump could do that would endanger that support from you or other evangelical leaders?". The very short answer was: "No." https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...5f4_story.html

                      Sarah Sanders has said 'God wanted Trump to be president': https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47066659 Franklin Graham also believes that is the case: https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael...-put-him-there

                      And here is a great example of how it sound when you cannot really allow yourself to be critical towards Trump:



                      Note the expression "a Syria decision"...

                      Luckily not all evangelicals reason along those lines but some, even some of the leaders, think along those simplistic lines.
                      The sad fact is, it is not a small minority. It is endemic. My experience is (and I am part of that community) you are more likely to find that sort of thinking in the evangelical community than not.

                      Jim
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        That is, perhaps, if you want to totally avoid the issue of abortion.
                        Sometimes it seems that those who are against abortion seem very confident being not so pro life or supporting a president who is not very pro life in quite many other cases.

                        Haley Stewart wrote the very interesting article I’m unapologetically pro-life, and I’m ashamed that Trump spoke at the March for Life. In it she says:

                        The primary problem is not with Mr. Trump’s past sins, it is that the policies he currently supports are inconsistent with his claim in his address today that “every life is sacred.” And where do we begin? His inhumane deportation policies? His seeming belief that the value of lives from prosperous countries are worth more than those from poor—or as he allegedly put it, “XXXXhole”—countries? His threats to end thousands of lives with nuclear war? Legislation that benefits the wealthy while treating the poor with disdain? I’ll let you choose; the list is a mile long. By making Donald Trump a figurehead for this movement, organizers of the March for Life offer not a consistent and beautiful ethic of life, but a farce, a brazen hypocrisy.
                        A truly pro-life ethic is founded on the truth that the life of every human being is worthy of dignity and protection. The pro-life movement is full of many different kinds of people with diverse ideologies, all joined together to protect the dignity of human life. The March for Life is intended to galvanize and unify supporters of the pro-life movement, and to change hearts and minds by communicating the truth and beauty of honoring all life, no matter how vulnerable. The choice of speakers this year failed this mission. Featuring politicians like Mr. Trump engenders division. It confirms the misconception that the pro-life movement is indeed an ideology that only cares about an unborn child until he or she exits the womb.
                        A hypocritical and inconsistent life ethic will diminish the strength of this movement and discredit it. We must do better because there is so much at stake—it is truly a matter of life and death.
                        I completely agree with her. We have already seen the horrible consequences for so many vulnerable people, some of them are children. I fear that Trump will discredit the movement or those who try to limit or prevent abortion because the hypocrasy that follows is so painful to watch.
                        "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                          Sometimes it seems that those who are against abortion seem very confident being not so pro life or supporting a president who is not very pro life in quite many other cases...
                          We had two horrible candidates, Charles - one of them very much pro-abortion, and the other not.
                          Also, the SCOTUS appointments would have impact for DECADES.

                          Hillary is not POTUS.
                          SCOTUS is not Hillary's.

                          Another election is on the way.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                            Scores of people, still die.
                            Oops, my mistake. I need to say sorry for the wrong response. Let’s try again:

                            You are right Truman was not near the bottom, but Lincoln was. Now they didn’t do rankings in that era as they do today, but reading what people were saying at the time, tells us a lot. Lincoln actually had a lot of negative press, with very negative stuff written about him during his time, in office. It wasn’t until his assassination, that view begin to change. Don’t believe me, read this:

                            https://www.battlefields.org/learn/a...lar-mr-lincoln
                            Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-16-2019, 02:51 PM.
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              We had two horrible candidates, Charles - one of them very much pro-abortion, and the other not.
                              Also, the SCOTUS appointments would have impact for DECADES.

                              Hillary is not POTUS.
                              SCOTUS is not Hillary's.

                              Another election is on the way.
                              It seems to me you are not pro life when you worry so little about the lives of all those who are born since you deal with the issue of pro life in so simple terms and continue to focus on abortion as if that was the only pro life issue. Your simplistic approach is not decent if you actually find that all human beings are of equal worth. Let me repeat what she said:

                              And where do we begin? His inhumane deportation policies? His seeming belief that the value of lives from prosperous countries are worth more than those from poor—or as he allegedly put it, “XXXXhole”—countries? His threats to end thousands of lives with nuclear war? Legislation that benefits the wealthy while treating the poor with disdain? I’ll let you choose; the list is a mile long.
                              "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                                It seems to me you are not pro life when you worry so little about the lives of all those who are born since you deal with the issue of pro life in so simple terms and continue to focus on abortion as if that was the only pro life issue. Your simplistic approach is not decent if you actually find that all human beings are of equal worth. Let me repeat what she said:
                                Nanny Charles, strikes again.
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                                Comment

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