Originally posted by Teallaura
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Elizabeth Warren's Pregnant Pause
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Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostWould it not be fair to say it was accurate up until the point you officially informed him you had stopped holding Warren to the offense?
JimThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Roy View PostSo if two statements are irreconcilable, that's a lie, even if made more than a decade apart? No allowance made for error or misremembering or context or even subsequent corrections?
That's ridiculously harsh.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostYep - it's kinda crazy. When telling about an event, we don't usually give every detail, depending on why we are telling the story. The people we are telling usually don't care about ancillary details that don't contribute to the purpose of telling it unless they just have time to kill. And some times we just don't remember some aspect of the story - especially later. And our own understanding of the event and what was significant about it changes over time. To go through someone's account of an event over decades and demand every telling be identical and complete is absurd.
Jim
2) I willingly resigned because I realized my choice of career wasn't going to work out for me.
You're right, these represent the exact same story with only ancillary details included or excluded depending on the audience.
And if you believe that then you'll be eager to buy this little bridge in Brooklyn that I have for sale. Special price just for you because I know you're too smart to be conned!Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post1) I loved my job but was forced to resign because I was pregnant.
2) I willingly resigned because I realized my choice of career wasn't going to work out for me.
You're right, these represent the exact same story with only ancillary details included or excluded depending on the audience.And if you believe that then you'll be eager to buy this little bridge in Brooklyn that I have for sale. Special price just for you because I know you're too smart to be conned!Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Sam View PostThe statements do not conflict, as detailed extensively in this thread.
--Sam"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostYes they do, as shown in actual quotations. Evidence outweighs your inference.
Evidence of lying would be that Warren didn't take graduate courses in education sometime between June 1971 and 1972. That's the only thing, right now, that you could use to show Warren was lying. Her stories, right now, are consistent.
Can't expect people to follow complicated matters of history or law or whatnot. Definitely can expect people to not poke out their own eyes so they can parrot mendacious smears against others.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Roy View PostSo Warren is allowed to misremember between 1971 and 2007, but not between 2007 and 2019
The likelihood is she simply lied - either defensively in 2007 or deceptively in 2019.
That the change in her story reflects the current political theme of discrimination is also a red flag - and makes the 2019 account more suspect."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Sam View PostAs detailed in the timeline constructed above, the quotes do not contradict each other.
...
--Sam
See? You don't read what I write - but you expect me to read all your stuff."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostIt's not consistent - that's the problem. If she's gonna make a mistake, it's far more likely in the 36 years between 1971 and 2007 than in the 12 years between 2007 and 2019. In 18 years of conducting interviews, I can't think of such a case were the later accounts were in conflict but the patient insisted credibly that both were true. Usually, the second account was prefaced with "I was wrong about..." or, "I lied about...".
The likelihood is she simply lied - either defensively in 2007 or deceptively in 2019.
That the change in her story reflects the current political theme of discrimination is also a red flag - and makes the 2019 account more suspect.
The story didn't change:
In 2007, she recounted that she took graduate courses shortly before her child's birth and stayed at home for a couple years afterward.
In 2019, she recounts that she was forcibly resigned from her job earlier in the year, consistent with NJ law at the time.
You're talking about an omission in 2007 that wasn't germane or crucial to the discussion she was having.
Y'all are just reaching very far out on a limb to accuse Warren of lying and I'd go as far as to say that's a sin.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostIt's not consistent - that's the problem. If she's gonna make a mistake, it's far more likely in the 36 years between 1971 and 2007 than in the 12 years between 2007 and 2019.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostJust as she's matching Biden's poll numbers, she comes up with more reasons to challenge her truthfulness....
Report disputes Elizabeth Warren’s claim she was let go from teaching job over pregnancy
And, yeah, I know, Trump lies.
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Originally posted by Roy View PostBut they don't represent what Warren said...
My summary: "I willingly resigned because I realized my choice of career wasn't going to work out for me."
What Warren said in 2019: "I became a special needs teacher. I have lived my dream job! ... I would probably still be doing the work today but by the end of the first year, I was visibly pregnant, and the principal did what principles did in those days: wish me luck and hire someone else for the job."
My summary: "I loved my job but was forced to resign because I was pregnant."
So my summaries in fact track pretty closely with what Warren said, and the point remains: these are contradictory accounts and not merely variations of the same story with only "ancillary details" changed.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostWhat Warren said in 2007: "...my first year post-graduation I worked in a public school system with the children with disabilities. I did that for a year, and then that summer I didn’t have the education courses, so I was on an ’emergency certificate,’ it was called. I went back to graduate school and took a couple of courses in education and said, ‘I don’t think this is going to work out for me.’"
My summary: "I willingly resigned because I realized my choice of career wasn't going to work out for me."So my summaries in fact track pretty closely with what Warren said, ...Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by JimL View PostSince you are not really concerned with truthfulness when it comes to a president,The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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