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Originally posted by Sam View PostIf you cared at all, you'd already know that we have asylum management programs. It's just an ignorant question that you've asked before and I've answered in detail.
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostNope, I literally made the point days before than when I again repost, almost word for word what I said days before. You than acted as though that was something new. Do you want the quotes and post numbers that prove it?
So do you deny this?
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post...where you throw shade down on your fellow Christians...
shade.jpeg
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Originally posted by Sam View PostAnd pay attention to what gets labeled sanctimonious or holier-than-thou or self-righteous here:
This is about people who are fleeing (or desperate to flee) violence being rejected and consigned to live and die in a camp or a failed state or a gang-controlled neighborhood where they've been credibly threatened with torture or death. If you think it's holier-than-thou to forcibly hold that turning those people away back to gangs or kidnapping their children with no intent on reunification is immoral and anti-Christian ...
... well, there's no holiness at all in that. What are you fighting for? Who are you fighting for? What point is there whining about Christian persecution through anti-discrimination laws or taxes if your Christianity doesn't even blanch at refugees and asylum seekers being abused, imprisoned, and turned away?
--Sam
Asking your plan for separating out human traffickers, coyotees, drug runners, gang members, etc from those escaping violence in their homelands is a valid question to ask. Are you going to answer it or are you going to make more long winded speeches, where you throw shade down on your fellow Christians and act all holy and better than everyone else who wants an answer?
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostAnd ummm, how do we provide these houses and keep track of them all, while being processed through?
The problem is you Sam, I don’t care for self righteous, moral preening, from someone playing gotta games.
If you cared at all, you'd already know that we have asylum management programs. It's just an ignorant question that you've asked before and I've answered in detail.
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And pay attention to what gets labeled sanctimonious or holier-than-thou or self-righteous here:
This is about people who are fleeing (or desperate to flee) violence being rejected and consigned to live and die in a camp or a failed state or a gang-controlled neighborhood where they've been credibly threatened with torture or death. If you think it's holier-than-thou to forcibly hold that turning those people away back to gangs or kidnapping their children with no intent on reunification is immoral and anti-Christian ...
... well, there's no holiness at all in that. What are you fighting for? Who are you fighting for? What point is there whining about Christian persecution through anti-discrimination laws or taxes if your Christianity doesn't even blanch at refugees and asylum seekers being abused, imprisoned, and turned away?
--Sam
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Originally posted by Sam View PostWe have only concerned ourselves here with legal immigration: asylum and refugee resettlement. Family separation, indefinite detention, Remain in Mexico, and metering are all methods of deterring legal immigration. So people who keep conflating that with illegal immigration end up telling on themselves.
I've said it before and I don't know how many times it needs repeating: best practices for resettling refugees or asylum seekers is not to host them in random peoples' houses. Providing them access to their own domiciles is best practice. That people continue to ignorantly assume that refugees and asylum seekers have to be hosted reflects on how little they're engaged in the topic.
A better question would be "What are you doing to support asylum seeking families and refugees in your area?" and I'd be happy to answer that to someone who was sincerely looking to advance a conversation. But what we have here, as in previous conversations recently, is one or more people who don't care about the morality of what's happening to asylum seeking families and refugees but rather want a reason -- any reason -- to shrug off any sense of responsibility or even ethical discomfort.
--Sam
The problem is you Sam, I don’t care for self righteous, moral preening, from someone playing gotta games.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostIt wasn't a false accusation Pix. It is what you were saying. I can't help it if you don't know how to express yourself. Initially you were justifying hate as part of our war effort in WWII, that's not just having the emotion, that is acting on it. Then you went on to try to say God expresses hate in scripture so hate must be justifiable sometimes. And in those references, God's judgement is evident, so He was definitely acting on it. But you gradually moved away from these initial, unsupportable positions and eventually either changed your position or finally figured out how to say something more in line with what you claim you meant all along above. I don't know what to make of that pix, BUT, once you finally found your voice on the topic I did NOT accuse you of changing your mind, I simply said if that is what you mean then you have no argument from me.
I don't owe you an apology for the pix. That was just you being clumsy in how you made your point (at best).
For #2, yes. I need an actual specific context. That is far to general, and could apply to a large number of conversations in a perverted sort of way, most of which I'd argue the point is valid. So produce your example and we can see if you have a point or you are just grasping at straws.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostYou don't think the "get out of here you filthy immigrant" isn't a bit of a straw man. That it represents the view of those who think it is important for a country to be able to control their borders?
The fact is nearly everybody I know who is upset with illegal immigration has little to no problem with legal immigration.
Moreover, I think it is only fair to ask those who take a holier than thou self-righteous position to walk the walk rather than give us the usual "do as I say not as I do." They ought to lead by example. So asking how many illegals that they have helped move into their home seems quite fair.
We have only concerned ourselves here with legal immigration: asylum and refugee resettlement. Family separation, indefinite detention, Remain in Mexico, and metering are all methods of deterring legal immigration. So people who keep conflating that with illegal immigration end up telling on themselves.
I've said it before and I don't know how many times it needs repeating: best practices for resettling refugees or asylum seekers is not to host them in random peoples' houses. Providing them access to their own domiciles is best practice. That people continue to ignorantly assume that refugees and asylum seekers have to be hosted reflects on how little they're engaged in the topic.
A better question would be "What are you doing to support asylum seeking families and refugees in your area?" and I'd be happy to answer that to someone who was sincerely looking to advance a conversation. But what we have here, as in previous conversations recently, is one or more people who don't care about the morality of what's happening to asylum seeking families and refugees but rather want a reason -- any reason -- to shrug off any sense of responsibility or even ethical discomfort.
--Sam
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostYeah I can Jim.
1. You falsely accused me of excusing hate when my position on emotions actually was emotions are neutral, it is what we chose to do with them and how we choose to act upon them is what determines if they are good. I told you this for days, than you claimed I didn’t.
I don't owe you an apology for the pix. That was just you being clumsy in how you made your point (at best).
2. You falsely accused me of not ‘seeing the flaws of Trump’ even when the very argument I made was that as bad as Trump can be, Clinton is worse.
Do I need to produce quotes and post numbers too?
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 10-18-2019, 01:35 PM.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThere is nothing in line with the scriptural concepts Sam referenced that is in between "get out of here you filthy immigrant" and "oh, please, please, PLEASE come live with me"?
Jim
The fact is nearly everybody I know who is upset with illegal immigration has little to no problem with legal immigration.
Moreover, I think it is only fair to ask those who take a holier than thou self-righteous position to walk the walk rather than give us the usual "do as I say not as I do." They ought to lead by example. So asking how many illegals that they have helped move into their home seems quite fair.
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Originally posted by Sam View PostIf you cared at all about the issue, I believe I made the point clearly:
"If you want to help refugees and asylum seekers so much, why aren't you doing [X]?"
"Doing [X] isn't how those programs are actually run and isn't best practice for asylum seekers or refugees."
"Hah! You're not doing [X] and that means you're doing nothing!"
It doesn't take a genius to see the logical flaw in that, only someone who cares about the issue being discussed. Even if it were true that I'm doing nothing to advocate for asylum seekers and refugee families, that wouldn't absolve you or anyone else for doing nothing (or worse than nothing by supporting and defending the policies and politicians enacting those policies).
The only course you're pursuing here is to throw up a wall of indignation so you don't have to confront what we're doing with these anti-Christian, anti-American, xenophobic policies.
--Sam
What do you do about those taking advantage of the situation?
Dodging it, won’t make it go away nor will berating those asking these questions either. I have a perfectly valid right to ask this stuff. Throwing out false accusations, doesn’t help your position any.Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-18-2019, 01:26 PM.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostBut you can't produce any information to establish this nebulous accusation. Look, unless you can produce an actual instance that I can respond to, then you are just trolling, or lying. So it's your choice. But if you don't stop, and you won't back up your accusation with some sort of actual reference to the event you have in mind, then I'll just report you to the moderators as harassing.
Bottom line, put up or shut up.
Jim
1. You falsely accused me of excusing hate when my position on emotions actually was emotions are neutral, it is what we chose to do with them and how we choose to act upon them is what determines if they are good. I told you this for days, than you claimed I didn’t.
2. You falsely accused me of not ‘seeing the flaws of Trump’ even when the very argument I made was that as bad as Trump can be, Clinton is worse.
Do I need to produce quotes and post numbers too?
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostAny real consequences? I have a few of those myself. Almost took off a friend's ear and started a bush fire in a public park trying to see what happens when you launch an estes model rocket engine with fins glued to it and no launch rod or pad. We got the fire out before it grew to criminal proportions. The idea was if you take away the weight of rocket holding the engine, it will go REALLY high ...
Amazing we survived - isn't it
Funny though, I was visiting a friend, and his Dad worked at a motel on the shore of Lake Erie. We were hanging out there. People would routinely launch off the beach in truck inner tubes and float about.
Roy and I decided we'd paddle on over to Canada for the day, visit a bit, then paddle on back to the US. We figured Canada was "just over the horizon". WHO KNEW it was so far!!!
When we lost sight of the US Coast, and couldn't yet see Canada, we got concerned. The sun was pretty much directly overhead, so we had no idea what direction we were going.
Then it occurred to me that Niagara Falls was on one end of the lake, and could just imagine getting swept over. The other thought -- were there SHARKS in Lake Erie? I had no idea, but imagined there must be.
Long story short, as the sun was setting (finally knew where "West" was, for all the good that did us) we heard the blast of a ship's horn, then a big white US Coast Guard Cutter came into view, and they launched a boat to collect us and bring us on board. It was GREAT - they warmed us up, gave us some food and drink, showed us around the ship...
Somebody on shore had seen us disappear over the horizon, and called the USCG - and I'm sure glad they did!
So, yeah, when I got home, momma was so glad to see me, she kissed and hugged me, then whooped the living crap out of me. Love is a strange thing.
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