Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Elizabeth Warren's Pregnant Pause

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Lincoln is an interesting case. A lot of libertarians put him among the worst because he suspended habeas corpus. I have seen multiple Christians from TWeb alone make the argument.

    I put Truman in my bottom three because I don't think nuking civilians is ever justified, no matter how much you dress it up in war strategy.
    My main goal is simply pointing out that flips on a president in office and out, can be drastically different. I’m pretty sure the high regards of Lincoln is the fact he was assassinated and became a martyr figure and legend. Truman found himself in a very turbulent time in our history. He faced one of the hardest choices a president likely had to make:

    1. Invade, an opinion that likely would have made Stalingrad seem like a picnic and likely would have turned Japan into a graveyard.

    2. Starve them out. Japan is far from self sufficient and this likely would have killed hundreds of thousands and lasted years.

    3. Hit them with nukes and shock and awe them to surrender.

    I know you’ll disagree, but I think he made the decision that saved the most allied troops and Japanese. He took the one that was the best of three terrible choices.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
      I know it might surprise you, but even Nixon can have a few good points. Your black/white thought process is showing again.
      The black/white thought process is thought process that things because I rank a person as 'among the worst' that I would not recognize there would be both good and bad.

      The black/white thought process assumes that because I an appalled at what I find bad in Trump, that I do not see that there is a mix of good and bad in him as well.

      The only black/white thought process happening here pix is in your mind, and it is aimed at me. What I see in Trump that is bad creates the response in me it does because:

      1) it is dangerous - as we see in the fact he has been trying to get foreign countries involved in our elections, undermining our sovereignity, and as we see in his abandonment of our allies in the war on ISIS.
      2) many good people, many of them Christians, refuse to take a position that acknowledges how bad the bad things about Trump are. So that the bad things Trump is doing are being excused before the world by the Evangelical Christian church, which paints the entire Evangelical church with a great big red 'H' for Hypocrites. Hypocrites that condemn homosexuality or other sexual sins, but who excuse gross immorality of nearly all kinds in their leader of choice.


      He lies, cheats, breaks laws, commits adultery, regularly undermines or cuts of those that have been loyal to him, has no respect for the constitution or the rule of law, is a bonafide Narcisist of the worst kind, care nothing about ripping children out of the arm of parents if it will let him keep a campaign promise, mocks the disabled, takes personal jabs at individual citizens from the office of the presidency, attacks the personal appearance of the wives of his opponenents, and on and on and on, and yet Evangelical Christians as a group excuse him and claim him as their own. The spend hours and hours on websites trying to pretend he really isn't doing these things and it's just the MSM making things up.

      What is different about Trump over Obama, or Bush, or Clinton, or Nixon, or any other president is the extent to which the Church of Jesus Chist is willing to prostitute itself on his behalf.

      THAT is why Trump is so bad in my eyes. Because he has made the Church his Harlot of Choice. And the Church is all for it.

      Jim
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
        Thus trying to get Sam to understand multiple predictions, got it wrong, continues to be a waste of time.
        I've heard it jokingly suggested that we should dispense with elections and simply let pollsters pick the winners.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          The black/white thought process is thought process that things because I rank a person as 'among the worst' that I would not recognize there would be both good and bad.

          The black/white thought process assumes that because I an appalled at what I find bad in Trump, that I do not see that there is a mix of good and bad in him as well.

          The only black/white thought process happening here pix is in your mind, and it is aimed at me. What I see in Trump that is bad creates the response in me it does because:

          1) it is dangerous - as we see in the fact he has been trying to get foreign countries involved in our elections, undermining our sovereignity, and as we see in his abandonment of our allies in the war on ISIS.
          2) many good people, many of them Christians, refuse to take a position that acknowledges how bad the bad things about Trump are. So that the bad things Trump is doing are being excused before the world by the Evangelical Christian church, which paints the entire Evangelical church with a great big red 'H' for Hypocrites. Hypocrites that condemn homosexuality or other sexual sins, but who excuse gross immorality of nearly all kinds in their leader of choice.


          He lies, cheats, breaks laws, commits adultery, regularly undermines or cuts of those that have been loyal to him, has no respect for the constitution or the rule of law, is a bonafide Narcisist of the worst kind, care nothing about ripping children out of the arm of parents if it will let him keep a campaign promise, mocks the disabled, takes personal jabs at individual citizens from the office of the presidency, attacks the personal appearance of the wives of his opponenents, and on and on and on, and yet Evangelical Christians as a group excuse him and claim him as their own. The spend hours and hours on websites trying to pretend he really isn't doing these things and it's just the MSM making things up.

          What is different about Trump over Obama, or Bush, or Clinton, or Nixon, or any other president is the extent to which the Church of Jesus Chist is willing to prostitute itself on his behalf.

          THAT is why Trump is so bad in my eyes. Because he has made the Church his Harlot of Choice. And the Church is all for it.

          Jim
          Do you feel better after that display of TDS?
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
            Do you feel better after that display of TDS?
            I feel I should add a bit more to this:

            So how do you feel that Hillary used a former foreign intel operative, to collect dirt on Trump, from foreign sources, including Russia and the Ukraine, and presented this to the FBI. Who than used such information to spy on the Trump campaign?

            Do you feel that members of the Clinton campaign and Obama administration should be arrested, put on trial, and jailed for getting foreigners to interfere in our election process?

            Inquiring minds would like a non evasive answer.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              Do you feel better after that display of TDS?
              Not after this reply of yours.

              The problem of your unwillingness to face the very real issues at hand is distressing to say the least. But it is morbidly common in the evangelical Christian community.

              Think about it. You play like this is some mental aberration on my part, and yet the simplr fact is, the Christian community's support for Donald Trump renders them objectively hypocrites. We can no longer claim that we are misunderstood, or that the people that reject our message are simply blinded by their own love of the world or rejection of God.

              We are, objectively, plainly, factually being hypocrites by supporting this person. By inventing excuses for plainly immoral acts, by cheering him on in rallies where he pokes at and stirs up the most base emotions of revenge and hate. It is absolutely that we want what he offers, and we are willing to prostitute ourselves to him (i.e. sacrifice our morals) to get it.

              Jim
              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-16-2019, 09:33 AM.
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                I feel I should add a bit more to this:

                So how do you feel that Hillary used a former foreign intel operative, to collect dirt on Trump, from foreign sources, including Russia and the Ukraine, and presented this to the FBI. Who than used such information to spy on the Trump campaign?

                Do you feel that members of the Clinton campaign and Obama administration should be arrested, put on trial, and jailed for getting foreigners to interfere in our election process?

                Inquiring minds would like a non evasive answer.
                Apples and oranges, lilpix, apples and oranges. A candidate or political party, hiring, paying a private firm, who happens to employ foreigners, to do opposition research on an opponent is not illegal. But asking, or a President extorting, a foreign government to do the same is illegal. In the first case, a foreign government isn't interfering in a U.S election, in the latter case they would be and they may, like Russia, have alterior motives for doing so like putting their man in the White House, or like Ukraine who badly needs U.S. aide.
                Last edited by JimL; 10-16-2019, 09:35 AM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                  I feel I should add a bit more to this:

                  So how do you feel that Hillary used a former foreign intel operative, to collect dirt on Trump, from foreign sources, including Russia and the Ukraine, and presented this to the FBI. Who than used such information to spy on the Trump campaign?

                  Do you feel that members of the Clinton campaign and Obama administration should be arrested, put on trial, and jailed for getting foreigners to interfere in our election process?

                  Inquiring minds would like a non evasive answer.
                  You are not reading my post pixie. When did the evangelical church prostitute itself in support of Hillary?

                  Jim
                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    Not after this reply of yours.

                    The problem of your unwillingness to face the very real issues at hand is distressing to say the least. But it is morbidly common in the evangelical Christian community.
                    Your problem is you close your eyes and ears and scream about Trump, while ignoring the real problem, the modern Democrat party.

                    Has Trump harassed private businesses, with endless lawsuits, to hurt them financially, for holding a disagreeing political opinion?

                    Has Trump promised to use the IRS to punish disagreeing opinions?

                    Has Trump raised our taxes through the roof?

                    Has Trump promised to throw people into prison, for disagreeing with him?

                    Has Trump got us involved in more endless wars, where more of our children die?

                    What you fail to grasp it isn’t how awesome Trump is as how at least Trump isn’t as bad as his enemies. Using the government to financially cripple those who disagree with you is anti American. Sending kids to die, in endless wars, with no clear objective, is a problem. Using the powers of the government to jail those you disagree with, is wrong. Closing your eyes to these details is your problem and just what Max told you (and you excused away). Trump is president for these reasons (and more).

                    Think about it. You play like this is some mental aberration on my part, and yet the simplr fact is, the Christian community's support for Donald Trump renders them objectively hypocrites. We can no longer claim that we are misunderstood, or that the people that reject our message are simply blinded by their own love of the world or rejection of God.
                    Or it renders them realist that find themselves faced with a tough choice. Vote for the person that is obviously flawed, but at least is promising to leave you alone and do something for your plight or vote for those that promise to use the full force of the government to destroy you. You keep failing, again and again, to understand this simple point and your TDS prevents you from understanding this. Trump is obviously a very flawed, morally compromised person. Trump though hasn’t said he plans on using the full power of the government to shut down my church and force them to accept their version of truth or else, either. Tell me Jim, what one is the slightly better option?

                    We are, objectively, plainly, factually being hypocrites by supporting this person. By inventing excuses for plainly immoral acts, by cheering him on in rallies where he pokes at and stirs up the most base emotions of revenge and hate. It is absolutely that we want what he offers, and we are willing to prostitute ourselves to him (i.e. sacrifice our morals) to get it.
                    Or a realist. You’re welcome to clutch your pearls as the other side runs roughshod over them as they turn you into a serf. At least you’ll have your pearls. I’ll pass.
                    Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-16-2019, 10:04 AM.
                    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      You are not reading my post pixie. When did the evangelical church prostitute itself in support of Hillary?

                      Jim
                      The choice in 2016 was:

                      Trump or Clinton.

                      What one at least promised to leave Christians alone to practice their beliefs?
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Apples and oranges, lilpix, apples and oranges. A candidate or political party, hiring, paying a private firm, who happens to employ foreigners, to do opposition research on an opponent is not illegal. But asking, or a President extorting, a foreign government to do the same is illegal. In the first case, a foreign government isn't interfering in a U.S election, in the latter case they would be and they may, like Russia, have alterior motives for doing so like putting their man in the White House, or like Ukraine who badly needs U.S. aide.
                        Of course it was because your TV told you it was different. The government of Russia and Ukraine was contacted to dig up dirt on Trump.

                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                          The choice in 2016 was:

                          Trump or Clinton.

                          What one at least promised to leave Christians alone to practice their beliefs?
                          Please read again. Not talking about the election. And for the 1000th time, voting for Hillary or Clinton was a rock and a hard place decision. There was no 'right vote' in 2016.

                          However - Proclaiming Trump 'God's man' and talking about a divine mandate on him and standing behind him no matter WHAT he does, cheering him on NO MATTER WHAT - IS the problem I'm talking about.

                          And that is why I not talking about Hillary. Evangelical Christians don't deny the truth when she does something wrong. They don't cover it up. They don't echo conspiracy theories on their facebook pages to deflect attention from her misdeeds.

                          They ARE doing that with Donald Trump.


                          JIm
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            Please read again. Not talking about the election. And for the 1000th time, voting for Hillary or Clinton was a rock and a hard place decision. There was no 'right vote' in 2016.

                            However - Proclaiming Trump 'God's man' and talking about a divine mandate on him and standing behind him no matter WHAT he does, cheering him on NO MATTER WHAT - IS the problem I'm talking about.

                            And that is why I not talking about Hillary. Evangelical Christians don't deny the truth when she does something wrong. They don't cover it up. They don't echo conspiracy theories on their facebook pages to deflect attention from her misdeeds.

                            They ARE doing that with Donald Trump.


                            JIm
                            Quote me where I said Trump was ‘God’s man’. Not my job to defend what other people say or believe so your response was a non sequitur from the get go. My job is to defend what I say or believe and the choice is pretty easy when I ask this question:

                            Who has promised and/or has taken steps to let me and others practice our beliefs, in a way of our choosing, without the government telling us otherwise?

                            The answer tells me all I need to know for 2020.
                            Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-16-2019, 10:20 AM.
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                              Of course it was because your TV told you it was different. The government of Russia and Ukraine was contacted to dig up dirt on Trump.

                              No, I just explained to you how it was different, that you can't recognize how that is different just goes to show how your mind is biased and will only see what it wants to see. There are none so blind...........

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                                Quote me where I said Trump was ‘God’s man’. Not my job to defend what other people say or believe so your response was a non sequitur from the get go.
                                Not talking about you specifically pixie. I'm talking about the Evangelical Community as a whole prostituting itself with Donald Trump as the reason my focus is on Trump on these pages. It's not just that Trump is bad. And make no mistake, he is bad. As far as I can tell he is probably worse than any predecessor in our life time. And I'd be willing to say that on these pages. But that is not what keeps me coming back and continuing to try to make the point. What keeps me coming back is Christians excusing, participating in covering up what he is doing that is bad, ignoring it, justifying it, claiming the only reason it is reported is MSM 'bias'.

                                Because that turns the evangelical community into an Objective with no substantive excuse Hypocrites with a capitol H. We pretend we are against gay marriage because it is 'immoral' all the while standing behind Trump as he declares war on the poor, as he lies, cheats, undermines the rule of law, commits illegal acts trying to win the next election and so on and so forth. It doesn't fly. You try telling an immigrant that has lost her child to our immigration policies that you are 100% in Trumps camp on that, and oh, by the way, Jesus loves you and I'm praying for you. Or a gay person they shouldn't act out their sexual urges all the while excusing the Access Hollywood tape, or more likely, fighting against the women that have been sexually harassed by Trump and calling them liars and opportunists.

                                Capitol H pix. Capitol H.

                                Jim
                                Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-16-2019, 10:31 AM.
                                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                7 responses
                                53 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                42 responses
                                234 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                24 responses
                                105 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Ronson
                                by Ronson
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                194 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                73 responses
                                321 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Working...
                                X