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Elizabeth Warren's Pregnant Pause

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  • Originally posted by Jim B. View Post
    ..When you've gotten you're little undies unwadded again...
    A) my undies are not little
    2) what are you doing looking at them in the first place?
    C) they're Duluth Trading Company undies - they can't wad up!

    And it's YOUR!!!!!
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      Not true mm. The word was used several times in this thread to dismiss my views on Trump. but what I see in you, pix, and many others is very real hatred of liberal ideas and the MSM that is so strong and so deep that you are willing to excuse much worse in trump because through him you have the opportunity to push back against those same things.






      What you dont realize mm is that you excuse and make excuses for Trump no matter how low he goes, no matter what laws he breaks, no matter who or what is harmed by his actions.

      The moral compromises you are willing to accept on behalf of this man are just very difficult to comprehend.

      Jim
      Jim, I don’t like many views of the far left because they are opposite of the principles this country was founded on. You have democrats (including presidential candidates):

      1. Threatening to use the power of the federal government to financially bully Christian groups with “accept homosexuality or I’ll use the IRS on you.”
      2. Writing and publishing articles about free speech ‘killing is’.
      3. Wanting to shut down anti abortion groups.
      4. Using big tech companies to censor conservatives.
      5. Wanting to disarm us.

      This is the reality. As I said, you want to be a serf, move to China and if you think this is wrong:

      Explain the difference between a socialist and a democrat presidential candidate.

      My family moved to what is now the US some 400 years ago to escape government oppression. No way I’ll let it come here.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

      Comment


      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        Source: 1 John 3:14-16

        We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that eternal life does not reside in a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him. 16This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.

        © Copyright Original Source

        Key term, hates a brother. Kinda hard for members of the SS to be following the principles of Christ while doing what they did. Here’s an interview from an American that was among the first to liberate these camps:

        He will never forget the lifeless bodies and burnt bones stacked around the camp. He will never forget the emaciated prisoners, too weak to eat. He will never forget the hardened combat infantrymen around him who dabbed at their eyes or broke down in tears or vomited.

        https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...forget-n819166


        Do the people that did that stuff, sound like brothers, to you? The SS were butchers.

        I am trying to fix how our homeland is run. Haven't you noticed?
        No you’re not. You’re allying yourself with those a lot worse than Trump.

        I don't have to ignore our laws to be against how people, how this administration, is using them against innocent and downtrodden peoples. There are other ways than the abusive measures Trump has taken. How about at least making it possible for those that are in fact fleeing dangerous and abusive situations to get their day in court seeking asylum and be safe from those that would kill them while they are waiting?
        And mixed in with them are sex traffickers, drug traffickers, gang members, violent psychopaths, drug runners, etc. A fact, you seem to gloss over in your attempts to pull heart strings and get people not to think rationally. We are a nation of laws Jim, laws which have to be followed.

        You see -

        Love demands we work around the deficiencies of our laws to help as many as we can, changing them where necessary. That we recognize and accept responsibility for how we have helped create the situations these people are fleeing.
        Some are and others are not. Love, without the balance of rationally makes people make stupid choices. Some are fleeing bad situations, others are not. Either way, they need to be checked before they are allowed in.

        Hate demands we abuse those same people with every possible harmful implication of our existing laws, that we deal destructively with the situation by making new and even less compassionate laws, ignoring our own responsibility in creating the situation at the border.
        Unrestrained compassion creates some of the worse situations imaginable. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, for a reason. Remember, the Nazi’s had good intentions.

        I believe that is a cartoon like misrepresentation of the actual positions Pix,

        Nevertheless - assuming you are correct - that justifies the evil Trump is doing? It doesn't work that way Pix. I don't have to support one one form of evil just because I reject some other form of evil. I can be against wide open borders AT THE SAME TIME I am against Trumps abuse of immigrants.
        More opinion, zero facts. A typical driven Jim post. You’re better than this.

        I acknowledge you have leveled other accusations against me in the remainder of your post, but I am not at this time going to respond to them.

        I hope you are noting that I have not leveled any accusations of evil or evil motives against you in these posts. Perhaps you could try again to speak to the ideas rather than assumed motivations that are likely not true.
        Yeah you have. You’re just too cowardly to admit it. You’ve accused me of supporting evil, so yes you have. Lie to yourself, but don’t lie to me.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sam View Post
          Not open borders and safer because of the policy.
          No they are not.

          See, I can make bald assertions too.
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            You are confusing hating evil with hating people. And you are confusing old testament text and ideas with the New. And you are confusing what God can do with what we can do - or are required to do. And I think you are misunderstanding the text by not taking into account the whole context of scripture. If God loves ALL mankind, If God has sent Himself to die for ALL mankind, then you can't interpret passages where God is described as hating people that sin as justification for our own hatred of other people. And - in fact - regardless of what God does or doesn't do - you and I are not God. And God has very clearly commanded us NOT to hate other people - as I quoted.

            Consider the story of Corrie Ten Boom. Consider the words of Christ I quoted, or 'Never return evil for evil, but instead ...'. When we hate people, we participate with evil. We are called NOT to be like the world. We are called not to hate those who hate, but to love them and if possible bring them to repentance. It is not an easy thing to do. But there is a big difference between recognizing our incapacity to avoid hatred in some circumstance and saying that it is justifiable to hate people.

            If we hate people, we are participating in evil, if for no other reason than we have been commanded by God NOT to hate other people.








            You are entitled to your opinion, wrong though it may be.


            Jim
            “Hate what is evil, cling to what is good.”

            I wonder who wrote that?
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              Key term, hates a brother. Kinda hard for members of the SS to be following the principles of Christ while doing what they did. Here’s an interview from an American that was among the first to liberate these camps:

              He will never forget the lifeless bodies and burnt bones stacked around the camp. He will never forget the emaciated prisoners, too weak to eat. He will never forget the hardened combat infantrymen around him who dabbed at their eyes or broke down in tears or vomited.

              https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...forget-n819166


              Do the people that did that stuff, sound like brothers, to you? The SS were butchers.
              yes they were. But that does not give us the right to hate them. We can hate what they did. Our governments can hold them accountable and can punish them - even with capitol punishment. But we only destroy ourselves if we give into evil and hate them.

              Again - look at Corrie Ten Boom. She forgave the SS guard over her and her sister who came up to her after one of her talks*:

              Source: Corrie Ten Boom

              And I, who had spoken so glibly of forgiveness, fumbled in my pocketbook rather than take that hand. He would not remember me, of course–how could he remember one prisoner among those thousands of women?

              But I remembered him and the leather crop swinging from his belt. It was the first time since my release that I had been face to face with one of my captors and my blood seemed to freeze.

              “You mentioned Ravensbrück in your talk,” he was saying. “I was a guard in there.” No, he did not remember me.

              “But since that time,” he went on, “I have become a Christian. I know that God has forgiven me for the cruel things I did there, but I would like to hear it from your lips as well. Fräulein”–again the hand came out–“will you forgive me?”

              And I stood there–I whose sins had every day to be forgiven–and could not. Betsie had died in that place–could he erase her slow terrible death simply for the asking?

              It could not have been many seconds that he stood there, hand held out, but to me it seemed hours as I wrestled with the most difficult thing I had ever had to do.

              For I had to do it–I knew that. The message that God forgives has a prior condition: that we forgive those who have injured us. “If you do not forgive men their trespasses,” Jesus says, “neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses.”

              I knew it not only as a commandment of God, but as a daily experience. Since the end of the war I had had a home in Holland for victims of Nazi brutality.

              Those who were able to forgive their former enemies were able also to return to the outside world and rebuild their lives, no matter what the physical scars. Those who nursed their bitterness remained invalids. It was as simple and as horrible as that.

              And still I stood there with the coldness clutching my heart. But forgiveness is not an emotion–I knew that too. Forgiveness is an act of the will, and the will can function regardless of the temperature of the heart.

              “Jesus, help me!” I prayed silently. “I can lift my hand. I can do that much. You supply the feeling.”

              And so woodenly, mechanically, I thrust my hand into the one stretched out to me. And as I did, an incredible thing took place. The current started in my shoulder, raced down my arm, sprang into our joined hands. And then this healing warmth seemed to flood my whole being, bringing tears to my eyes.

              “I forgive you, brother!” I cried. “With all my heart!”

              © Copyright Original Source



              * Corrie could forgive him what what he did to her and her sister. She could not grant him forgiveness for what he did to others. God can do that. His willingness to seek our her forgiveness, however, is one outward sign he was truly repentant.

              No you’re not. You’re allying yourself with those a lot worse than Trump.
              That would be where we have a major disagreement Pix. I believe Trump to be far worse that these Democrats and liberals that drive you to support Him in spite of the evil he represents.

              And mixed in with them are sex traffickers, drug traffickers, gang members, violent psychopaths, drug runners, etc. A fact, you seem to gloss over in your attempts to pull heart strings and get people not to think rationally. We are a nation of laws Jim, laws which have to be followed.
              So deal with the issues in an intelligent and compassionate manor. The MAJORITY of these people are NOT sex traffickers, drug traffickers etc. They are poor people trying to find a way to a better life. So deal with the situation in a way that protects US interests and the common welfare without losing infomrmation about which child belongs to which parent, or better yet, create housing for them while you sort through who is ok and who is not that doesn't separate 3 year olds from their moms. IOW, deal with the problem with compassion, not with punitive, frantic, and negligent rushes to implement a campaign promise!


              Some are and others are not. Love, without the balance of rationally makes people make stupid choices. Some are fleeing bad situations, others are not. Either way, they need to be checked before they are allowed in.
              In this case, that is irrelevant, because what I'm speaking against are absolutely bumbling rushes to 'do something about immigration' that did not consider the consequences and created horrible situations for poor and needy people. This isn't compassion without rationality. This is bumbling stupidity married to a compassionless policy magnifying the suffering of an already suffering group of people 10 fold.


              Unrestrained compassion creates some of the worse situations imaginable. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, for a reason. Remember, the Nazi’s had good intentions.

              The road to Hell is mostly paved with selfish, compassionless, and/or hateful acts.

              I'm not talking about unrestrained compassion, or even naive compassion. I'm talking about having compassion vs. compassionLESS and PUNITIVE policies.



              Yeah you have. You’re just too cowardly to admit it. You’ve accused me of supporting evil, so yes you have. Lie to yourself, but don’t lie to me.
              That is just crazy. Now you have to invent accusations from me to justify yourself? I've not accused you of supporting evil or focussed any part of this discussion on who you are or your motives for saying what you have said - I've simply tried to get you to see that Trump is doing evil things. There is no accusation there, except the one that hails from your own conscience.
              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-12-2019, 10:40 PM.
              He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

              "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                “Hate what is evil, cling to what is good.”

                I wonder who wrote that?
                Paul - in Romans. And that is a call to personal righteousness, on the heals of a command to love which implicitly includes the mandate both to love and to forgive.

                That is not by any means or in any known interpretation a call to, or an excuse for, hating people.

                Hating people, harboring unforgiveness in our hearts towards another, is a sin. We have been forgiven an immeasurable debt owed to God Himself. And we have no choice but to forgive ALL lessor human debts or our Father will not forgive us.


                Jim
                Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-12-2019, 10:36 PM.
                He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post

                  Explain the difference between a socialist and a democrat presidential candidate.
                  Something that Debbie Wasserman Schultz could not do on two separate occasions when she was Chair of the Democratic National Committee nor could Hillary Clinton a short time later.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    “Hate what is evil, cling to what is good.”

                    I wonder who wrote that?
                    And there's "a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace." (Eccl.3:8) but let's face it the Bible generally speaks pretty negatively about hate and hatred.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      And there's "a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace." (Eccl.3:8) but let's face it the Bible generally speaks pretty negatively about hate and hatred.
                      And Scripture uses hate sometimes merely to connote not favoring - e.g. God hated Esau, yet He made Esau the founder of a nation and fairly wealthy. God clearly favored Jacob - but He doesn't seem to have despised Esau in the modern sense at all.

                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Comment


                      • Yes, but ox's point is that if you don't hate Trump, it's because you're filled with... hate... or... something... *mumble mumble*
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Something that Debbie Wasserman Schultz could not do on two separate occasions when she was Chair of the Democratic National Committee nor could Hillary Clinton a short time later.
                          Nor can "Hands off my Medicare!" recipients define the difference between USA welfare programs they want to keep around and socialism.

                          Not because there is no difference but because the word "socialism" is so broad and intertwined with favorable and unfavorable policy across the globe that any pat answer becomes meaningless. Much like capitalism or even liberalism and conservatism, to blend into the Will thread.

                          And the less someone understands this, the more they rely on insufficient labels to describe things. Dunning-Kruger meets DYMO maker.

                          --Sam
                          "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Yes, but ox's point is that if you don't hate Trump, it's because you're filled with... hate... or... something... *mumble mumble*
                            If you're arguing that you should hate another person, you've lost the argument and have much more serious things to worry about.

                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                              Nor can "Hands off my Medicare!" recipients define the difference between USA welfare programs they want to keep around and socialism.

                              Not because there is no difference but because the word "socialism" is so broad and intertwined with favorable and unfavorable policy across the globe that any pat answer becomes meaningless. Much like capitalism or even liberalism and conservatism, to blend into the Will thread.

                              And the less someone understands this, the more they rely on insufficient labels to describe things. Dunning-Kruger meets DYMO maker.

                              --Sam
                              From your analogy I'm guessing you are conceding that it is almost impossible to distinguish between a socialist and a democrat and then hoping to distract attention from the fact.

                              If so then I'm sure you were ecstatic when every single one of the Democratic presidential contenders indicated that they favored free health care for those entering the U.S. illegally. You know, the same stuff that they made American citizens pay for and heavy fines if they didn't have medical insurance. But given free to illegal immigrants.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                From your analogy I'm guessing you are conceding that it is almost impossible to distinguish between a socialist and a democrat and then hoping to distract attention from the fact.

                                If so then I'm sure you were ecstatic when every single one of the Democratic presidential contenders indicated that they favored free health care for those entering the U.S. illegally. You know, the same stuff that they made American citizens pay for and heavy fines if they didn't have medical insurance. But given free to illegal immigrants.
                                That's a lie. Not yours, given that you've taken to just saying things that are false without doing any particularly basic checking of fact, but definitely a lie told to you. While the candidates agreed at the June debate that their "coverage plan would provide coverage for undocumented immigrants", not all candidates even propose a single-payer healthcare plan that would make such coverage "free" for undocumented immigrants (i.e., paid for through general taxes shared by those same immigrants), let alone free.

                                Swinging back to your opening point: it's not hard to distinguish the candidates from Venezuelan socialism or Italian socialism, somewhat harder to distinguish some of them (though hardly all) from the Nordic model. But all hew much closer to the history of American socialism that both Democrats and Republicans have advocated at different times.

                                In the same way, there are meaningful distinctions between fascist rhetoric and policies by American Republicans in the past years and Italian or Spanish fascism and meaningful distinctions between American nationalism expressed by Trump and other Republicans and nationalism expressed by mid-20th century Germany or Cambodia. But Republicans today hew much closer to the particularly American brands of fascism and nationalism that both Democrats and Republicans have advocated at different times.

                                So the ""Democrats are socialists!" line means something close to nothing these days; not only because Republicans are plenty socialists themselves but because no one bothers to define their terms in a way that fits the label into any real historical sense.

                                --Sam
                                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

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