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Ellen DeGeneres is Right

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    So, this is interesting to me. The guy who is "LGBTQ-affirming" is critical of the woman who is actually LGBTQ.
    Say a gay guy went into a gay bar in SF and started shooting everyone up ... could ya figure why the gay police might arrest him, anyway? FWIW, I'm with Ellen on this one, too. Protesting Bush after he's out of the White House doesn't look like a good profit/loss ratio to me.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
      Say a gay guy went into a gay bar in SF and started shooting everyone up ... could ya figure why the gay police might arrest him, anyway?
      Of course - in that scenario, he personally directly caused personal injury and/or death. It's not a case of somebody setting policies that cause other people to cause personal injury and/or death, which is Sam's case. Nor does Sam claim to be a "gay guy".

      It's kinda like virtue signalling --- "as an LGBTQ-affirming person, I'm going to condemn the actions of an allegedly anti-LGBTQ person even though the actual LGBTQ person put that aside...."

      FWIW, I'm with Ellen on this one, too. Protesting Bush after he's out of the White House doesn't look like a good profit/loss ratio to me.
      And, I'll stipulate that other LGBTQ persons seemed upset with her for "consorting with the enemy", but, in this case, I think she was the one showing real class.
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        So, this is interesting to me. The guy who is "LGBTQ-affirming" is critical of the woman who is actually LGBTQ.
        Not really a surprising phenomenon; the LGBTQ community, among its members and its allies, is like any other: disagreements abound. There are going to be some LGBTQ people who agree with DeGeneres' approach. There are some who disagree. End of the day, you're going to be breaking bread with people you disagree with -- but a lot of people are still very affected by anti-LGBTQ policies, rhetoric, and culture that surrounds the 2004 marriage amendment. DeGeneres has a real conflict here between her friendship with Bush and the people he did a lot to cause harm.

        --Sam
        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Sam View Post
          Not really a surprising phenomenon; the LGBTQ community, among its members and its allies, is like any other: disagreements abound. There are going to be some LGBTQ people who agree with DeGeneres' approach. There are some who disagree. End of the day, you're going to be breaking bread with people you disagree with -- but a lot of people are still very affected by anti-LGBTQ policies, rhetoric, and culture that surrounds the 2004 marriage amendment. DeGeneres has a real conflict here between her friendship with Bush and the people he did a lot to cause harm.

          --Sam
          Somehow, she managed to rise above it. As a Christian, it might be liberating for you to do so, as well.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #50
            We can say that DeGeneres, as a gay woman, is the "wronged party" regarding the 2004 marriage amendment. But that's not the argument: rather, it's that she is a member of the wronged party — a leader, even. And that's a position she's kind of volunteered for. As such, she doesn't just have to grapple with the harm done to her but the harm done to her community and how others might be affected by watching one of the architects of a plan to rob gay people of the right to be married, who has never apologized or worked toward repentance, by memory, just get left off the hook.

            It's a less black-and-white decision than the war and the torture, of course. But it is a sticking point.

            --Sam
            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

            Comment


            • #51
              Just as an aside, I tried to find where DeGeneres might have ever claimed to be a Christian herself. I find where she talks about having grown up in a 'Christian Science' home, and I see where some websites (second hand) describe her religion as "Christian", but I don't find anywhere she makes the claim herself.

              Regarding this incident, however, I think she is acting in a "Christian" manner.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Somehow, she managed to rise above it. As a Christian, it might be liberating for you to do so, as well.

                Are you asking that people "rise above it" or are you asking that they not demand powerful people who have done significant harm are called to account? Aren't you merely asking that people disregard the harm and let Bush have a good time without criticism?

                --Sam
                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Sam View Post
                  Are you asking that people "rise above it" or are you asking that they not demand powerful people who have done significant harm are called to account? Aren't you merely asking that people disregard the harm and let Bush have a good time without criticism?

                  --Sam
                  No. And I wasn't "asking people", my comment was directed specifically to you, Sam, as a Christian.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    No. And I wasn't "asking people", my comment was directed specifically to you, Sam, as a Christian.
                    You're equating Christian forgiveness or grace with friendship or company and that's just not biblical. Neither Jesus nor Paul tell us to befriend those who have done harm and haven't repented. We are to forgive, we are to extend grace, but we are to be mindful of justice and hold the powerful (and other Christians!) to account.

                    Forgiveness isn't forgetting or neverminding. And there's no Christian principle at work here. The rebuttal is that Jesus ate and drank with the sinners -- but He did not head over to Herod's house every now and then for poker. His renewal of people who were deemed, as a class, to be sinful is not a reason to create a category of cheap grace where accountability doesn't exist.

                    --Sam
                    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Sam View Post
                      No one here, I believe, would criticize someone who refused to go to a Jeffery Epstein party on the basis that he serially abused women....
                      Sam, they were at a FOOTBALL GAME, for crying out loud. They were both invited to the game by Charlotte Jones, the daughter of Jerry Jones, owner of the Cowboys.

                      Originally posted by Sam View Post
                      If DeGeneres weighs those decisions and decides that she still wants to go to ballgames with Bush,...
                      She didn't "go the ballgame" with him - He was there, and she was there, and they were nice to each other. Somebody get a rope!
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Just as an aside, I tried to find where DeGeneres might have ever claimed to be a Christian herself. I find where she talks about having grown up in a 'Christian Science' home, and I see where some websites (second hand) describe her religion as "Christian", but I don't find anywhere she makes the claim herself.

                        Regarding this incident, however, I think she is acting in a "Christian" manner.
                        Like the family and Judge in the Botham Shem Jean case - good things...
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          Like the family and Judge in the Botham Shem Jean case - good things...
                          It's amazing -- it's like we're seeing good things happen, and people are finding all kinds of reason to oppose..... Love cannot win, hate must prevail!!!!

                          By the way, I saw an interview with Judge Kemp this morning -- I'm more impressed with her than ever.
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Just as an aside, I tried to find where DeGeneres might have ever claimed to be a Christian herself. I find where she talks about having grown up in a 'Christian Science' home, and I see where some websites (second hand) describe her religion as "Christian", but I don't find anywhere she makes the claim herself.

                            Regarding this incident, however, I think she is acting in a "Christian" manner.
                            If she did claim to be a Christian, that might complicate things. Doesn't Paul say not to hang out with people who claim to be Christians but are sexually immoral? I guess you could interpret that in terms of church fellowship...
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Sam View Post
                              Are you asking that people "rise above it" or are you asking that they not demand powerful people who have done significant harm are called to account? Aren't you merely asking that people disregard the harm and let Bush have a good time without criticism?

                              --Sam
                              Like we are asking to let Ellen parade her immoral and sinful choices one her national show! Unforgivable I say!
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                                If she did claim to be a Christian, that might complicate things. Doesn't Paul say not to hang out with people who claim to be Christians but are sexually immoral? I guess you could interpret that in terms of church fellowship...
                                But, as far as I can tell, they didn't even sit together intentionally - they were separately invited to the same game by Charlotte Johnson to sit in Jerry Johnson's fancy schmancy suite. I don't think either of them went there to "hang out" with the other, but to view a football game at the invitation of the owners.

                                Not to negate your point, but I think it wouldn't apply in this case.
                                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                                Comment

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