Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Ellen DeGeneres is Right
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Originally posted by Juvenal View PostSay a gay guy went into a gay bar in SF and started shooting everyone up ... could ya figure why the gay police might arrest him, anyway?
It's kinda like virtue signalling --- "as an LGBTQ-affirming person, I'm going to condemn the actions of an allegedly anti-LGBTQ person even though the actual LGBTQ person put that aside...."
FWIW, I'm with Ellen on this one, too. Protesting Bush after he's out of the White House doesn't look like a good profit/loss ratio to me.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, this is interesting to me. The guy who is "LGBTQ-affirming" is critical of the woman who is actually LGBTQ.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostNot really a surprising phenomenon; the LGBTQ community, among its members and its allies, is like any other: disagreements abound. There are going to be some LGBTQ people who agree with DeGeneres' approach. There are some who disagree. End of the day, you're going to be breaking bread with people you disagree with -- but a lot of people are still very affected by anti-LGBTQ policies, rhetoric, and culture that surrounds the 2004 marriage amendment. DeGeneres has a real conflict here between her friendship with Bush and the people he did a lot to cause harm.
--SamThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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We can say that DeGeneres, as a gay woman, is the "wronged party" regarding the 2004 marriage amendment. But that's not the argument: rather, it's that she is a member of the wronged party — a leader, even. And that's a position she's kind of volunteered for. As such, she doesn't just have to grapple with the harm done to her but the harm done to her community and how others might be affected by watching one of the architects of a plan to rob gay people of the right to be married, who has never apologized or worked toward repentance, by memory, just get left off the hook.
It's a less black-and-white decision than the war and the torture, of course. But it is a sticking point.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Just as an aside, I tried to find where DeGeneres might have ever claimed to be a Christian herself. I find where she talks about having grown up in a 'Christian Science' home, and I see where some websites (second hand) describe her religion as "Christian", but I don't find anywhere she makes the claim herself.
Regarding this incident, however, I think she is acting in a "Christian" manner.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSomehow, she managed to rise above it. As a Christian, it might be liberating for you to do so, as well.
Are you asking that people "rise above it" or are you asking that they not demand powerful people who have done significant harm are called to account? Aren't you merely asking that people disregard the harm and let Bush have a good time without criticism?
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostAre you asking that people "rise above it" or are you asking that they not demand powerful people who have done significant harm are called to account? Aren't you merely asking that people disregard the harm and let Bush have a good time without criticism?
--SamThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNo. And I wasn't "asking people", my comment was directed specifically to you, Sam, as a Christian.
Forgiveness isn't forgetting or neverminding. And there's no Christian principle at work here. The rebuttal is that Jesus ate and drank with the sinners -- but He did not head over to Herod's house every now and then for poker. His renewal of people who were deemed, as a class, to be sinful is not a reason to create a category of cheap grace where accountability doesn't exist.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostNo one here, I believe, would criticize someone who refused to go to a Jeffery Epstein party on the basis that he serially abused women....
Originally posted by Sam View PostIf DeGeneres weighs those decisions and decides that she still wants to go to ballgames with Bush,...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostJust as an aside, I tried to find where DeGeneres might have ever claimed to be a Christian herself. I find where she talks about having grown up in a 'Christian Science' home, and I see where some websites (second hand) describe her religion as "Christian", but I don't find anywhere she makes the claim herself.
Regarding this incident, however, I think she is acting in a "Christian" manner.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostLike the family and Judge in the Botham Shem Jean case - good things...
By the way, I saw an interview with Judge Kemp this morning -- I'm more impressed with her than ever.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostJust as an aside, I tried to find where DeGeneres might have ever claimed to be a Christian herself. I find where she talks about having grown up in a 'Christian Science' home, and I see where some websites (second hand) describe her religion as "Christian", but I don't find anywhere she makes the claim herself.
Regarding this incident, however, I think she is acting in a "Christian" manner."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Sam View PostAre you asking that people "rise above it" or are you asking that they not demand powerful people who have done significant harm are called to account? Aren't you merely asking that people disregard the harm and let Bush have a good time without criticism?
--SamAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostIf she did claim to be a Christian, that might complicate things. Doesn't Paul say not to hang out with people who claim to be Christians but are sexually immoral? I guess you could interpret that in terms of church fellowship...
Not to negate your point, but I think it wouldn't apply in this case.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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