Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Ellen DeGeneres is Right

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Just as an aside, I tried to find where DeGeneres might have ever claimed to be a Christian herself. I find where she talks about having grown up in a 'Christian Science' home, and I see where some websites (second hand) describe her religion as "Christian", but I don't find anywhere she makes the claim herself.

    Regarding this incident, however, I think she is acting in a "Christian" manner.
    Like the family and Judge in the Botham Shem Jean case - good things...

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam View Post
    No one here, I believe, would criticize someone who refused to go to a Jeffery Epstein party on the basis that he serially abused women....
    Sam, they were at a FOOTBALL GAME, for crying out loud. They were both invited to the game by Charlotte Jones, the daughter of Jerry Jones, owner of the Cowboys.

    Originally posted by Sam View Post
    If DeGeneres weighs those decisions and decides that she still wants to go to ballgames with Bush,...
    She didn't "go the ballgame" with him - He was there, and she was there, and they were nice to each other. Somebody get a rope!

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    No. And I wasn't "asking people", my comment was directed specifically to you, Sam, as a Christian.
    You're equating Christian forgiveness or grace with friendship or company and that's just not biblical. Neither Jesus nor Paul tell us to befriend those who have done harm and haven't repented. We are to forgive, we are to extend grace, but we are to be mindful of justice and hold the powerful (and other Christians!) to account.

    Forgiveness isn't forgetting or neverminding. And there's no Christian principle at work here. The rebuttal is that Jesus ate and drank with the sinners -- but He did not head over to Herod's house every now and then for poker. His renewal of people who were deemed, as a class, to be sinful is not a reason to create a category of cheap grace where accountability doesn't exist.

    --Sam

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam View Post
    Are you asking that people "rise above it" or are you asking that they not demand powerful people who have done significant harm are called to account? Aren't you merely asking that people disregard the harm and let Bush have a good time without criticism?

    --Sam
    No. And I wasn't "asking people", my comment was directed specifically to you, Sam, as a Christian.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Somehow, she managed to rise above it. As a Christian, it might be liberating for you to do so, as well.

    Are you asking that people "rise above it" or are you asking that they not demand powerful people who have done significant harm are called to account? Aren't you merely asking that people disregard the harm and let Bush have a good time without criticism?

    --Sam

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Just as an aside, I tried to find where DeGeneres might have ever claimed to be a Christian herself. I find where she talks about having grown up in a 'Christian Science' home, and I see where some websites (second hand) describe her religion as "Christian", but I don't find anywhere she makes the claim herself.

    Regarding this incident, however, I think she is acting in a "Christian" manner.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam
    replied
    We can say that DeGeneres, as a gay woman, is the "wronged party" regarding the 2004 marriage amendment. But that's not the argument: rather, it's that she is a member of the wronged party — a leader, even. And that's a position she's kind of volunteered for. As such, she doesn't just have to grapple with the harm done to her but the harm done to her community and how others might be affected by watching one of the architects of a plan to rob gay people of the right to be married, who has never apologized or worked toward repentance, by memory, just get left off the hook.

    It's a less black-and-white decision than the war and the torture, of course. But it is a sticking point.

    --Sam

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam View Post
    Not really a surprising phenomenon; the LGBTQ community, among its members and its allies, is like any other: disagreements abound. There are going to be some LGBTQ people who agree with DeGeneres' approach. There are some who disagree. End of the day, you're going to be breaking bread with people you disagree with -- but a lot of people are still very affected by anti-LGBTQ policies, rhetoric, and culture that surrounds the 2004 marriage amendment. DeGeneres has a real conflict here between her friendship with Bush and the people he did a lot to cause harm.

    --Sam
    Somehow, she managed to rise above it. As a Christian, it might be liberating for you to do so, as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    So, this is interesting to me. The guy who is "LGBTQ-affirming" is critical of the woman who is actually LGBTQ.
    Not really a surprising phenomenon; the LGBTQ community, among its members and its allies, is like any other: disagreements abound. There are going to be some LGBTQ people who agree with DeGeneres' approach. There are some who disagree. End of the day, you're going to be breaking bread with people you disagree with -- but a lot of people are still very affected by anti-LGBTQ policies, rhetoric, and culture that surrounds the 2004 marriage amendment. DeGeneres has a real conflict here between her friendship with Bush and the people he did a lot to cause harm.

    --Sam

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
    Say a gay guy went into a gay bar in SF and started shooting everyone up ... could ya figure why the gay police might arrest him, anyway?
    Of course - in that scenario, he personally directly caused personal injury and/or death. It's not a case of somebody setting policies that cause other people to cause personal injury and/or death, which is Sam's case. Nor does Sam claim to be a "gay guy".

    It's kinda like virtue signalling --- "as an LGBTQ-affirming person, I'm going to condemn the actions of an allegedly anti-LGBTQ person even though the actual LGBTQ person put that aside...."

    FWIW, I'm with Ellen on this one, too. Protesting Bush after he's out of the White House doesn't look like a good profit/loss ratio to me.
    And, I'll stipulate that other LGBTQ persons seemed upset with her for "consorting with the enemy", but, in this case, I think she was the one showing real class.

    Leave a comment:


  • Juvenal
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    So, this is interesting to me. The guy who is "LGBTQ-affirming" is critical of the woman who is actually LGBTQ.
    Say a gay guy went into a gay bar in SF and started shooting everyone up ... could ya figure why the gay police might arrest him, anyway? FWIW, I'm with Ellen on this one, too. Protesting Bush after he's out of the White House doesn't look like a good profit/loss ratio to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • seer
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yeah, I kinda surprised myself.



    Because that Tramadol made me visit other planets with Arnold Schnizendigger and the Care Bears.
    I like Tramadol - if you have left overs...

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
    Bucket list:
    A Southern Baptist preacher comparing Ellen DeGeneris with Jesus.

    Check.
    Yeah, I kinda surprised myself.

    Bartender ... a double of that, please.
    Because that Tramadol made me visit other planets with Arnold Schnizendigger and the Care Bears.

    Leave a comment:


  • Juvenal
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?"
    Bucket list:
    A Southern Baptist preacher comparing Ellen DeGeneris with Jesus.

    Check.

    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I'm on drugs due to my knee
    Bartender ... a double of that, please.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam View Post
    I am LGBTQ-affirming, yes.
    So, this is interesting to me. The guy who is "LGBTQ-affirming" is critical of the woman who is actually LGBTQ.

    Leave a comment:

Related Threads

Collapse

Topics Statistics Last Post
Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
16 responses
100 views
0 likes
Last Post One Bad Pig  
Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
53 responses
299 views
0 likes
Last Post Mountain Man  
Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
25 responses
109 views
0 likes
Last Post rogue06
by rogue06
 
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
33 responses
195 views
0 likes
Last Post Roy
by Roy
 
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
84 responses
357 views
0 likes
Last Post JimL
by JimL
 
Working...
X