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Trump obstruction of Congress continues.

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  • Trump obstruction of Congress continues.

    The corrupt Trump Administration has just blocked Gordon Sondlin, the political appointee who donated a million dollars to get the position, from testifying before Congress concerning his role in the Trump scheme to get Ukraine to manurfacture dirt on Joe Biden. Apparently they are going to attempt do the same with the former Ambassador to Ukraine, who Trump fired (because he said "I heard bad things about her!") for pushing back against the scheme.
    This is obstruction, and Congress, who could obviously see this coming, stated that it would be treated as such, which is, again, an impeachable offense.

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    Last edited by QuantaFille; 10-08-2019, 10:01 AM.

  • #2
    Trump obstruction of Congress continues.

    The corrupt Trump Administration has just blocked Gordon Sondland, Ambassador to the European Union, a political appointee who donated a million dollars to get the position, from testifying before Congress concerning his role in the Trump scheme to get Ukraine to manurfacture dirt on Joe Biden. Apparently they are going to attempt do the same with the former Ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovich, who Trump fired because he said ("I heard bad things about her!") for pushing back against the scheme.
    This is obstruction, and Congress, who could obviously see this coming, stated that it would be treated as such, which is, again, an impeachable offense.

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...t-ukraine.html
    Last edited by JimL; 10-08-2019, 09:29 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      The corrupt Trump Administration has just blocked Gordon Sondland, Ambassador to the European Union, a political appointee who donated a million dollars to get the position, from testifying before Congress concerning his role in the Trump scheme to get Ukraine to manurfacture dirt on Joe Biden. Apparently they are going to attempt do the same with the former Ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovich, who Trump fired because he said ("I heard bad things about her!") for pushing back against the scheme.
      This is obstruction, and Congress, who could obviously see this coming, stated that it would be treated as such, which is, again, an impeachable offense.
      Good - but as Trump said, take an actual floor vote for the impeachment inquiry and he will cooperate. Why are they afraid to have a vote? It is called Executive privilege, used by both Clinton and Obama.
      Last edited by seer; 10-08-2019, 09:35 AM.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        The House doesn't need to vote for impeachment to open an impeachment inquiry and it has subpoena power, regardless. The Trump administration has tried to argue that, outside an impeachment proceeding, Congress only has subpoena power for a "legislative purpose" and the White House can dictate what "legislative purpose" means.

        So now there's an impeachment inquiry. But the WH is trying to argue -- again without merit -- that subpoenas in an impeachment inquiry have no force without a House vote to begin an impeachment proceeding. But as a report released by the Congressional Research Service in August explains, the House has moved to impeachment inquiries before without a vote.

        Any road, this specific matter is before a federal judge this morning and I expect the House will argue that the matter needs to be ruled on with haste. So we might see a ruling by the end of the week.

        Image 053.jpg

        --Sam
        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

        Comment


        • #5
          It's known as "separation of powers". Learn it. Love it.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sam View Post
            The House doesn't need to vote for impeachment to open an impeachment inquiry and it has subpoena power, regardless. The Trump administration has tried to argue that, outside an impeachment proceeding, Congress only has subpoena power for a "legislative purpose" and the White House can dictate what "legislative purpose" means.

            So now there's an impeachment inquiry. But the WH is trying to argue -- again without merit -- that subpoenas in an impeachment inquiry have no force without a House vote to begin an impeachment proceeding. But as a report released by the Congressional Research Service in August explains, the House has moved to impeachment inquiries before without a vote.

            Any road, this specific matter is before a federal judge this morning and I expect the House will argue that the matter needs to be ruled on with haste. So we might see a ruling by the end of the week.

            [ATTACH=CONFIG]40136[/ATTACH]

            --Sam
            The fact is Sam, Trump just repeated today that he would he will cooperate if they have a floor vote. What are they afraid of? Until then he will assert Executive privilege. Good - make them all go on record... Heck Obama and Clinton used Executive privilege during investigations - I bet you have no problem then.
            Last edited by seer; 10-08-2019, 09:42 AM.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              Good - but as Trump said, take an actual floor vote for the impeachment inquiry and he will cooperate. Why are they afraid to have a vote?
              Good you say? That Trump is abusing his power once again, that he is obstructing the responsibility of Congress to investigate and check any abuses of the Executive? Congress is a co-equal branch,seer, not subserviant to the Executive. The President has no legal argument for suppressing evidence or testimony of witnesses. Trump is once again attempting to undermine democracy, to undermine the Institution of Congress.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                The corrupt Trump Administration has just blocked Gordon Sondlin, the political appointee who donated a million dollars to get the position, ...
                Um, what? Is that true?
                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

                Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                Mountain Man: … this is how liberals argue these days, with labels instead of ideas.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  Good you say? That Trump is abusing his power once again, that he is obstructing the responsibility of Congress to investigate and check any abuses of the Executive? Congress is a co-equal branch,seer, not subserviant to the Executive. The President has no legal argument for suppressing evidence or testimony of witnesses. Trump is once again attempting to undermine democracy, to undermine the Institution of Congress.
                  Abusing power like when Obama 'obstructed' congress by using Executive privilege during the Fast and Furious investigation, or when Clinton did the same? Did they undermine democracy?
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    The fact is Sam, Trump just repeated today that he would he will cooperate if they have a floor vote. What are they afraid of? Until then he will assert Executive privilege. Good - make them all go on record... Heck Obama and Clinton used Executive privilege during investigations - I bet you have no problem then.
                    Trump said he'd release his tax returns. And that he'd unveil a healthcare plan "in a couple weeks". And that he'd sit for an interview in the Mueller investigation. Trump says a lot of things.

                    Executive privilege is not a shield during an impeachment inquiry. Trump doesn't get to dictate when and how the House approaches impeachment. A federal judge might in the near future but my educated guess is that you're going to be disappointed.

                    And if the judge rules that the Trump administration must comply with impeachment-related subpoenas? Will Trump adhere to the rule of law or will there simply be a new excuse for people to parrot?

                    --Sam
                    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      Um, what? Is that true?
                      Yes; Sonderland has no diplomatic experience but did donate $1 million to Trump's inaugural fund.

                      Paid ambassadorships are common and a bi-partisan example of corruption. Elizabeth Warren, though, has pledged to end the practice.
                      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sam View Post
                        Trump said he'd release his tax returns. And that he'd unveil a healthcare plan "in a couple weeks". And that he'd sit for an interview in the Mueller investigation. Trump says a lot of things.

                        Executive privilege is not a shield during an impeachment inquiry. Trump doesn't get to dictate when and how the House approaches impeachment. A federal judge might in the near future but my educated guess is that you're going to be disappointed.

                        And if the judge rules that the Trump administration must comply with impeachment-related subpoenas? Will Trump adhere to the rule of law or will there simply be a new excuse for people to parrot?

                        --Sam
                        I'm sure he will appeal to the Supreme Court - listen everyone knows what is going on here - they were talking impeachment since BEFORE he took office. It was a witch hunt from the beginning - I hope he blocks them at every turn. And I will ask again - why are the Dems afraid to have a floor vote?
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sam View Post
                          The House doesn't need to vote for impeachment to open an impeachment inquiry and it has subpoena power, regardless.
                          This is is half right...

                          Yes, congress can issue subpoenas; however a congressional committee must meet three requirements for their investigative subpoenas to be “legally sufficient” or have “judicial authority”; meaning a subpoena that carries a legal penalty for non-compliance.
                          • First: “the committee’s investigation of the broad subject area must be authorized by its chamber;
                          • Second: “the investigation must pursue “a valid legislative purpose” but does not need to involve legislation and does not need to specify the ultimate intent of Congress;
                          • Third: the specific inquiries must be pertinent to the subject matter area that has been authorized for investigation.

                          These “subpoenas” from the committees do not meet the first hurdle. The “impeachment inquiry” was not authorized by its chamber. The chamber for each committee is the full house of representatives. [Again, there are constitutional processes within impeachment.]

                          https://theconservativetreehouse.com...-and-pentagon/

                          It's worth noting that new "demand letters" that are being sent out in place of subpoenas have been modified to remove any threat for noncompliance since the letters are, in fact, not legally enforceable like a subpoena.

                          So while the House can technically begin an impeachment inquiry without a full House vote, its powers and authority to that end will be severely limited.
                          Last edited by Mountain Man; 10-08-2019, 10:00 AM.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            I'm sure he will appeal to the Supreme Court - listen everyone knows what is going on here - they were talking impeachment since BEFORE he took office. It was a witch hunt from the beginning - I hope he blocks them at every turn. And I will ask again - why are the Dems afraid to have a floor vote?
                            Jason Chaffetz, then chairman of the House Oversight Committee, was pledging in late October 2016 that his committee had "years" of investigations lined up for Clinton on "Day 1".

                            I'm not at all certain an adverse ruling for Trump would be stayed if the administration appeals.

                            Either way, adverse ruling or appeal, the House would very likely vote to begin the inquiry. As public opinion has ratcheted up in supporting impeachment over the past couple weeks, that's a less and less problematic vote for Democrats and a more and more problematic vote for Republicans.

                            --Sam
                            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sam View Post
                              Jason Chaffetz, then chairman of the House Oversight Committee, was pledging in late October 2016 that his committee had "years" of investigations lined up for Clinton on "Day 1".

                              I'm not at all certain an adverse ruling for Trump would be stayed if the administration appeals.

                              Either way, adverse ruling or appeal, the House would very likely vote to begin the inquiry. As public opinion has ratcheted up in supporting impeachment over the past couple weeks, that's a less and less problematic vote for Democrats and a more and more problematic vote for Republicans.

                              --Sam
                              And Clinton would have obstructed them at every turn (like destroying e-mails and hard drives) and you would have cheered! None of this is about principle Sam and you know it - it is about hating and getting Trump at any cost.
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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