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George Will wrangles with God, the conservative sensibility ...

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  • George Will wrangles with God, the conservative sensibility ...



    I went looking for this after seeing an excerpt featuring Trump (beginning at 10:15) in a Post op/ed, but the full video is a refreshing reminder of how conservatism no longer finds a reflection in the Republican Party.

  • #2
    George Swill
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      George Swill
      yeah - that is about all one could expect from you. He is an intellectual of integrity, and a strongly conservative one at that. But since he disagrees with you, he has suddenly become stupid.

      Such is the curse of commitment to a man rather than truth.


      Jim
      He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

      "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        George Swill
        Ad hominem

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Juvenal View Post


          I went looking for this after seeing an excerpt featuring Trump (beginning at 10:15) in a Post op/ed, but the full video is a refreshing reminder of how conservatism no longer finds a reflection in the Republican Party.
          I have a great deal of respect and admiration for Will and am amazed at his encyclopedic knowledge of baseball, but I obviously don't always agree with him.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jim B. View Post
            Ad hominem
            Yeah, it is, but I thought it was funny.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #7
              Could the video have injected the word 'conservative' for normal people any more times? How nice of the Washington Post to set up a quaint little corner where the majority voting population can hear things closer to truth.

              I agree with the interest in returning to the intent of the Founding Fathers of the country. It was useful to hear the contrast of the original US concept of natural rights (from God) contrasted to the European concept of rights being given by government. But Will fails to take into account how the Republicans for the last 30 or so years have been ineffectual against the progressive/communist influences. The conservative stance seemed to be unprepared to confront the actions of progressives -- sort of the innocence of doves while lacking the cleverness of serpents.

              Will talks about Trump acting in a progressive mentality concerning the role of president. This may be right in the ideal sense. I agree that the presidency is supposed to be a boring job working in the background, but, hopefully, Trump is able to use this current significance of the presidency to throw a wrench into the corrupt gears of Congress.

              Now, as a second thought, I would back off some from Will's concept of the presidency as a background role. The separation of powers is intended to limit the powers of each division of the government. So, Trump, as part of the execution of government powers, can prevent or reduce the actions of the executive branch. This prevention or reduction of action is the balance against an overreaching Congress. The people involve in the executive branch have to have a degree of assent to follow the edicts of Congress --if Congress loses the cooperation, then the laws of Congress also become ineffective.

              Will's book may be helpful to eventually restore direction to the country, but, based on the interview, he wasn't providing a pathway back. How do we control the wolves?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Juvenal View Post


                I went looking for this after seeing an excerpt featuring Trump (beginning at 10:15) in a Post op/ed, but the full video is a refreshing reminder of how conservatism no longer finds a reflection in the Republican Party.
                That was very interesting. Thanks for posting.
                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                “not all there” - you know who you are

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                  Will's book may be helpful to eventually restore direction to the country, but, based on the interview, he wasn't providing a pathway back. How do we control the wolves?
                  Will is "old school" and still thinks compromise is viable in today's political climate. He doesn't seem to realize just how far apart liberalism and conservatism have become.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Juvenal View Post


                    I went looking for this after seeing an excerpt featuring Trump (beginning at 10:15) in a Post op/ed, but the full video is a refreshing reminder of how conservatism no longer finds a reflection in the Republican Party.
                    Arguing with Will is always an exercise in caution but I think one would necessarily have to take issue with his definitions of conservatism and progressivism, starting with the idea of conservatism as a fan of cosmic chaos and ending with "Only I can fix it" being the rallying cry of progressivism.

                    At its heart, it's simply a denial of minority voices: the fundamental freedom of the individual that Will casts as the heart of conservatism was rarely provided to minorities during the time period Will nostagalizes. Indeed, the freedom of such minorities was often depicted, as now, as a danger to the traditional order that conservatism was to protect. So when Will talks about government "getting out of the way" of the 320 million people "busy running the country", I can't really think of a time when this was something that conservatism -- especially the brand of conservatism that Will has lived most of life supporting -- applied to people outside of a relatively small group.

                    I have been saying for several years, though, that the conservative movement's response to Donald Trump, as soon as he becomes perceived as a liability, will be that he was a New York liberal who hijacked the pure conservative movement and snuck in big government policy. In this, Will's voice will pave the way.

                    --Sam
                    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sam View Post
                      Arguing with Will is always an exercise in caution but I think one would necessarily have to take issue with his definitions of conservatism and progressivism, starting with the idea of conservatism as a fan of cosmic chaos and ending with "Only I can fix it" being the rallying cry of progressivism.

                      At its heart, it's simply a denial of minority voices: the fundamental freedom of the individual that Will casts as the heart of conservatism was rarely provided to minorities during the time period Will nostagalizes. Indeed, the freedom of such minorities was often depicted, as now, as a danger to the traditional order that conservatism was to protect. So when Will talks about government "getting out of the way" of the 320 million people "busy running the country", I can't really think of a time when this was something that conservatism -- especially the brand of conservatism that Will has lived most of life supporting -- applied to people outside of a relatively small group.

                      I have been saying for several years, though, that the conservative movement's response to Donald Trump, as soon as he becomes perceived as a liability, will be that he was a New York liberal who hijacked the pure conservative movement and snuck in big government policy. In this, Will's voice will pave the way.

                      --Sam
                      I'm not sure where you get this idea that the Constitutional government acts against minorities. The goal of the Constitution was to prevent an oppressive government under the hand of despots. If you take away the restrictions against oppression, then you will have true oppression. With such oppression, there will be little in life to be enjoyed by the majority, let alone the minorities.

                      What is your alternative to a government prohibited from oppression?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                        I'm not sure where you get this idea that the Constitutional government acts against minorities. The goal of the Constitution was to prevent an oppressive government under the hand of despots. If you take away the restrictions against oppression, then you will have true oppression. With such oppression, there will be little in life to be enjoyed by the majority, let alone the minorities.

                        What is your alternative to a government prohibited from oppression?
                        Where does the idea that the American government has discriminated against minorities come from?

                        "Well ..."

                        <opens American history textbook to pages 5 through 405>

                        "Oh. OH."

                        --Sam
                        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sam View Post
                          Where does the idea that the American government has discriminated against minorities come from?

                          "Well ..."

                          <opens American history textbook to pages 5 through 405>

                          "Oh. OH."

                          --Sam
                          Then stop reading the Communist's Book of American History. Could you quote the text that makes your point?

                          I could have appreciated some reasoned discussion on this. I'm curious what people want instead of protection from an oppressive government. Oppressive governments act against majorities and minorities -- this is an odd form of equality.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
                            Then stop reading the Communist's Book of American History. Could you quote the text that makes your point?

                            I could have appreciated some reasoned discussion on this. I'm curious what people want instead of protection from an oppressive government. Oppressive governments act against majorities and minorities -- this is an odd form of equality.
                            Largely, I'm just confused as to what you're saying. Are you saying that the American government hasn't oppressed minorities in the past or that the American government oppressed minorities so that the majority could enjoy freedom from oppression?

                            --Sam
                            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm saying that an unrestrained government acts against majorities and minorities.

                              The Constitution is designed to limit the powers of the US government. The problem of power in the government is its ability to oppress everyone if it is not limited in power. This is what we have seen in the USSR, Nazi Germany and China.

                              You seem to see some problem inherent to the design of the Constitution that causes discrimination of minorities.

                              Are you asking for these protections for all people to be removed? Are you asking for a different form of government? If so, what is going to stop that form of government from being oppressive to minorities?

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