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Slaughtering our Kurdish allies

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  • #61
    'But but but there is bipartisan support for this group infamous for terrorism, kidnapping, assassinations, targeting civilians, forcibly recruiting child soldiers, drug trafficking, suicide bombing, and human trafficking. '
    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
      I am sure that there is someone out there already penning Trump’s political obituary. It’s pretty awful. When he goes, he will hand back a banana republic. It is always the case that Democrats repair damage done by Republicans. You would think the voters would have realized this much by now.





      What? Wait, you were actually serious?







      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #63
        Russia working with Turkey to carve out bits of Syria. Putin says thanks Yanks (suckers).
        Last edited by firstfloor; 10-10-2019, 03:39 AM.
        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
        “not all there” - you know who you are

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
          I would point out that there are two posters in this thread, NorrinRadd and seer, whom I have seen posting consistently in support of Trump, who nonetheless do not agree with this development. I would add Terraceth due to his "amen" on the former, but this is only a suggestion, and I do not know his posting history of support or opposition to Trump's actions in general.

          More substantively, the same should be acknowledged for Lindsey Graham.

          But more directly, it is not reasonable in my view to continue to defend an initial judgment at odds with Rogue's direct denial of support in this instance. The proper course, in my view, is to gracefully admit to being wrong, learn from the experience, and move on.
          I agree with you.

          My reply had nothing to do with saying I think rogue supports this action. I thought I had already acknowledged that. I already recognize many in this thread have said they do not support this action. If anyone thinks otherwise, I'll be clear here. I accept rogues declaration he is against it.

          The post you replied to was a response to being ragged on for assuming rogue's initial post supported this action before he made clear his position.
          He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

          "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
            Russia working with Turkey to carve out bits of Syria. Putin says thanks Yanks (suckers).
            Pretty much.

            Hard to know why Trump is so willing to play into what Putin wants (divisions with NATO etc). But there is no scenario where Trump takes this specific action for the overall benefit of the USA.


            Jim
            He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

            "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
              'But but but there is bipartisan support for this group infamous for terrorism, kidnapping, assassinations, targeting civilians, forcibly recruiting child soldiers, drug trafficking, suicide bombing, and human trafficking. '
              And where has Trump indicated this is the reason for his action? And when has he tried to make a case in Congress or the Senate that our support of them is misguided for these reasons? Where has he first put pressure on the Kurds to change their ways or face consequences? They are our allies, and we are abandoning our commitment to them without trying to work with them to change these elements if they in fact are real. They have lost over 10,000 to fighting on our behalf. And these 'reason' are being offered as excuses after the fact.



              Jim
              He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

              "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

              Comment


              • #67
                Franklin Graham, of all people, has pushed back against Trump on this. I think we finally have an answer to the question as to whether there is any line that would cost Trump evangelical support short of full support for Roe v Wade or nuking Israel. Indeed, there is.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  Franklin Graham, of all people, has pushed back against Trump on this. I think we finally have an answer to the question as to whether there is any line that would cost Trump evangelical support short of full support for Roe v Wade or nuking Israel. Indeed, there is.
                  Why is anything Franklin Graham says slightly relevant? He's been making a mockery of his last name for at least 15 years.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                    Why is anything Franklin Graham says slightly relevant? He's been making a mockery of his last name for at least 15 years.
                    You don't think he's relevant in the context of gauging how evangelicals writ large view Trump?

                    And, yeah, I know what you're doing with this post. But he's actually personally connected with the president, unlike Robertson.
                    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                      I would point out that there are two posters in this thread, NorrinRadd and seer, whom I have seen posting consistently in support of Trump, who nonetheless do not agree with this development. I would add Terraceth due to his "amen" on the former, but this is only a suggestion, and I do not know his posting history of support or opposition to Trump's actions in general.
                      Gorsuch was an incredible pick for a Supreme Court justice. Kavanaugh was okay. Beyond that, there's not that much I have to praise Trump for. So a few really good decisions, but a lot of really dumb ones.

                      It's sort of telling that the best decisions he's made (judicial appointments) are ones where the choices were narrowed down by people beforehand who actually knew what they were doing. Anyone can make a smart decision if the only options given to them are smart ones. I suppose there's intelligence in listening to people who know what they're doing in this regard, but Trump seems incapable of doing that in any other issue.

                      I don't really post that much in regards to Trump because I've just grown apathetic about him--I don't even have a real opinion on the whole Ukraine mess. I already know I'm not voting for him or whoever the Democrats nominate (my choice will almost certainly be Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party--as a write-in, if he doesn't end up on my state's ballot), there's no Senator election in my state in 2020, and my district is so liberal that the Republicans didn't even bother running anyone in 2018. So why does it matter to me what he did in the Ukraine? It won't affect who I vote for in any way, or much of anything in my actual life. Beyond that, I'm just tired of it all, tired of stupid attacks on Trump and tired of Trump doing stupid things.
                      Last edited by Terraceth; 10-10-2019, 11:16 PM.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Terraceth View Post

                        I don't really post that much in regards to Trump because I've just grown apathetic about him--I don't even have a real opinion on the whole Ukraine mess. I already know I'm not voting for him or whoever the Democrats nominate (my choice will almost certainly be Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party--as a write-in, if he doesn't end up on my state's ballot), there's no Senator election in my state in 2020, and my district is so liberal that the Republicans didn't even bother running anyone in 2018. So why does it matter to me what he did in the Ukraine? It won't affect who I vote for in any way, or much of anything in my actual life. Beyond that, I'm just tired of it all, tired of stupid attacks on Trump and tired of Trump doing stupid things.
                        I'd like to do that theoretically, but I feel my case is different because it is plausible that the election will come down to my state. This particular action makes a vote against Trump much easier for me to justify on a pure pro-life calculus. (I wouldn't vote for him regardless of circumstance, it just comes down to what I do end up doing with my vote.)
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                          Gorsuch was an incredible pick for a Supreme Court justice. Kavanaugh was okay. Beyond that, there's not that much I have to praise Trump for. So a few really good decisions, but a lot of really dumb ones.
                          Hiya T, good to meetcha.

                          What's most disturbing to me is that even when I find myself in agreement with his stated policies, from securing our southern borders to stepping back from our military adventurism in the mideast, his gross incompetence verging on criminality works against the stated goals.

                          Gorsuch would be okay with me if it weren't a seat stolen from a black president by a southern senator who's now on record saying he'd seat a Trump appointee given the same circumstances. There's no way to whitewash those racist optics.

                          Kavanaugh literally spoke of his love for beer in a job interview — a job interview to serve as a judge. That's a whole lotta nope from me. His youthful, drunken, misdemeanor-level sexual antics were troubling, but something he made a real effort to atone for in his later career. Still, his awkward, blustering, dishonest denials, and clear threat of retaliation should have been disqualifying.

                          It's sort of telling that the best decisions he's made (judicial appointments) are ones where the choices were narrowed down by people beforehand who actually knew what they were doing. Anyone can make a smart decision if the only options given to them are smart ones. I suppose there's intelligence in listening to people who know what they're doing in this regard, but Trump seems incapable of doing that in any other issue.
                          I'm highly antagonistic to politicization of the judiciary. There is no bar to a non-partisan, merits-based appointments process, as was once the standard, at least for the lesser federal courts. Anything less runs the risk of watering down professionalism and creating disrespect for the courts. In both the Bush W. and Trump administrations, these political filters have led to nominations and appointments of unqualified candidates. In Trump's case, at least, the nominations came from experienced professionals, so they were of arguably higher quality than those from Dubya's still-wet-diploma YEC-Liberty U. grads.

                          I don't really post that much in regards to Trump because I've just grown apathetic about him--I don't even have a real opinion on the whole Ukraine mess. I already know I'm not voting for him or whoever the Democrats nominate (my choice will almost certainly be Brian Carroll of the American Solidarity Party--as a write-in, if he doesn't end up on my state's ballot), there's no Senator election in my state in 2020, and my district is so liberal that the Republicans didn't even bother running anyone in 2018. So why does it matter to me what he did in the Ukraine? It won't affect who I vote for in any way, or much of anything in my actual life. Beyond that, I'm just tired of it all, tired of stupid attacks on Trump and tired of Trump doing stupid things.
                          I pretty much tune out attacks on Trump from the über-sénestre, but the heaviest attacks have consistently come from the right, and they're impossible to ignore. The National Review ran an entire issue against him. The never-Trumpers. Mueller, Comey, G. Conway III, Bharara, George Will, et al., all with "unimpeachable" conservative credentials. And then the anonymous op-ed guy/gal, "We're not doing that" Kelly, and "I'll resign before I do that" Mattis.

                          The guardrails are gone.

                          Trump's only meaningful defender on Ukraine is "It's not illegal if I've got texts from State" Giuliani, whose investigative companions have just been arrested on suspicion of the exact crime they were trying to pin on Biden: foreign support in an American election in favor of yeah-sure-that's-just-a-coincidence Biden-accuser, since-removed Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX).

                          You can't make this stuff up.

                          Ukraine matters to me because we can't let Trump leave the presidency with a precedent for soliciting support for an election by withholding military support against Russia's invasion of a foreign country.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            You don't think he's relevant in the context of gauging how evangelicals writ large view Trump.
                            I don't think he should be.

                            And, yeah, I know what you're doing with this post. But he's actually personally connected with the president, unlike Robertson.
                            Is that supposed to be a defense of Robertson, or an impeachment of Franklin?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Sen. Graham calls Trump decision on Syria ‘biggest blunder of his presidency’

                              By Chris Dixon and
                              Colby Itkowitz
                              Oct. 10, 2019 at 10:49 p.m. EDT
                              CHARLESTON, S.C. — Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) on Thursday called President Trump’s decision to pull U.S. troops out of northern Syria “the biggest blunder of his presidency,” as the three top Republicans in the House took steps toward imposing sanctions on Turkey over its military offensive against U.S.-allied Kurdish forces.

                              Graham, one of Trump’s strongest defenders, has broken with the president over his sudden decision to withdraw American military personnel, a move that triggered widespread condemnation from Republicans and Democrats. Turkish forces deepened their offensive against the Kurds on Thursday.

                              Graham ratcheted up the criticism of Trump for his decision and lashed out at Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan at a news conference at The Citadel military college in Charleston.

                              “The president has abandoned the people who helped us destroy ISIS, chaos is unfolding, and when I hear the president — ‘We’re getting out of Syria’ — my statement to you is this is worse than what Obama did,” Graham said, comparing Trump to former president Barack Obama. “When Obama left Iraq, all hell broke loose, and if you think, Mr. President, ISIS is only a threat to Europe, you really don’t understand ISIS. ISIS is wanting to come after all of us. Not just Europeans.”

                              When a reporter asked if this could become Trump’s Vietnam, Graham replied, “No, this is worse.”

                              The damage is already done, but to answer any lingering doubts about how poorly this decision has been received:
                              At his news conference, Graham highlighted that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had asked people to “pray for the Kurds.”

                              “I think he’s sending a message to Americans,” said Graham. “You need to stand by the Kurds, because if you abandon them, then the forces that oppose us are going to take over Syria.”

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                                H
                                Kavanaugh literally spoke of his love for beer in a job interview — a job interview to serve as a judge. That's a whole lotta nope from me.
                                You mean like Ginsburg? https://www.politico.com/story/2015/...ol-sotu-115172
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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