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Volkers texts make it clear the investigation was a precondition

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  • Volkers texts make it clear the investigation was a precondition

    All the spin from the diehard TWEB Trump supporters is moot. Volker's texts make it clear Trump was all about withholding aid, conversations, and visits over the issue of Ukraine investigating issues associated with 2016 and Burisma (biden).

    Consider this text on the day of the call:

    Volker: Good Lunch, Thanks! Heard from white house, Assuming President Z convinces Trump he will investigate/"get to the bottom of what happened in 2016" we will nail down date for visit to Washington. Good luck, see you Tomorrow, kurt

    and BEFORE the call:

    Had breakfast with Rudy this morning - teeing up call with Yermak monday. Must have helped. Most important is for Zelensky to say he will help with investigation - and address any personnel issues - if there are any

    Note that later (8/10) he calls for a REBOOT of US/UKraine relations and mentions investigation of Burisma specifically

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/polit...ker/index.html



    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-04-2019, 08:02 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  • #2
    Show the quotes where:

    Aid was promised if the Ukraine agreed to investigate.

    Also:

    Cite the broken laws.

    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • #3
      “I think potus really wants the deliverable”

      This + the draft document that Ukrainian diplomats drafted to the specification of Giuliani is, for any reasonable universe, game over. Explicit confirmation that foreign policy (presidential meetings, aid) was being used as leverage for the President's political campaign messaging.

      --Sam
      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sam View Post
        “I think potus really wants the deliverable”

        This + the draft document that Ukrainian diplomats drafted to the specification of Giuliani is, for any reasonable universe, game over. Explicit confirmation that foreign policy (presidential meetings, aid) was being used as leverage for the President's political campaign messaging.

        --Sam
        Or you’re reading what you want to hear and believe, that best confirms your biasness.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
          Or you’re reading what you want to hear and believe, that best confirms your biasness.

          2019.09.01

          Bill Taylor: "Are we now saying that security assistance and WH meeting are conditioned on investigations?"

          Gordon Sondland: "Call me"

          ------------

          2019.09.09

          Bill Taylor: "As I said on the phone, I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign."
          "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
            Or you’re reading what you want to hear and believe, that best confirms your biasness.
            There is no bias. It is clear that zelenski had to agree to investigations that support Trumps political goals. Mention is made directly of Burisna, and there is great concern about the connection between aid being withheld and the investigations. All things told to us through other channels and which you and MM tried to say were 'tinfoil hat conspiracy theories'

            As Sam said, this opportunity for twisted spin in support of Trump in this is over.


            Jim
            He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

            "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sam View Post
              2019.09.01

              Bill Taylor: "Are we now saying that security assistance and WH meeting are conditioned on investigations?"

              Gordon Sondland: "Call me"

              ------------

              2019.09.09

              Bill Taylor: "As I said on the phone, I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign."


              The texts, which were turned over to Congress by Kurt D. Volker, the State Department’s former special envoy for Ukraine, come from a series of early September exchanges. They appear to show a dispute among American diplomats over whether the president was trying to use security aid or a White House meeting with the country’s new leader as leverage to pressure Ukraine to dig up dirt on a leading political rival — a charge at the heart of the impeachment investigation.

              One message, written by William B. Taylor Jr., the top American diplomat in Ukraine, suggested that Mr. Trump was holding back the package of military aid to Ukraine as a bargaining chip to influence the country’s president to do his political bidding.

              “As I said on the phone, I think it’s crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign,” Mr. Taylor wrote on Sept. 9 to Mr. Volker and Gordon D. Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union.
              https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/u...peachment.html


              Key term, dispute. They were arguing about if that was going on, but nothing to indicate it came directly from Trump’s lips.

              Context, it’s what’s for breakfast.
              Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-04-2019, 08:26 AM.
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                There is no bias. It is clear that zelenski had to agree to investigations that support Trumps political goals. Mention is made directly of Burisna, and there is great concern about the connection between aid being withheld and the investigations. All things told to us through other channels and which you and MM tried to say were 'tinfoil hat conspiracy theories'

                As Sam said, this opportunity for twisted spin in support of Trump in this is over.


                Jim
                No it isn’t, there’s lots of gaps of knowledge in there that you’re filling in to fit your belief system.
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                  So Sam,

                  What was said on the phone call?

                  Yet again, you’re filling in context you want to hear because it fits your belief system.
                  Bill Taylor made explicitly clear what was said on the phone call.

                  The "punch back FAST" strategy of crisis management/denial doesn't work well when a senior diplomat is putting what's going down on record.

                  --Sam
                  "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sam View Post
                    Bill Taylor made explicitly clear what was said on the phone call.

                    The "punch back FAST" strategy of crisis management/denial doesn't work well when a senior diplomat is putting what's going down on record.

                    --Sam
                    I changed my post to an article. Read it, it was a dispute about if it was going on, not direct orders from the president.

                    AKA, it’s an opinion from a US official, not a fact.
                    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In other news, it seems that Volker's closed door testimony was a bust and did nothing to advance the Democrat impeachment scheme. One congressman even described it as a "setback" for Schiff.

                      https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...chment-agenda/
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                        I changed my post to an article. Read it, it was a dispute about if it was going on, not direct orders from the president.

                        AKA, it’s an opinion from a US official, not a fact.
                        It wasn't a dispute about what was going on. It was Sonderland (who paid $1m to the Trump inaugural fund for his ambassadorship) knowing that you don't put down "we're doing the quid pro quo" on paper. And Taylor, a career diplomat, repeatedly making a record of "we're doing the quid pro quo and I object". I expect that we'll see memoranda from Taylor soon enough, along with direct testimony.

                        And if one can twist herself into the idea that it's a "difference of opinion", it wouldn't change the fact that there's a substantial and repeated record establishing that a presidential meeting was being held up in exchange for an investigation into how Ukraine oligarchs helped Clinton frame Russia/Trump for the DNC hack, which soon after morphed into two investigations, at Giuliani's direction, into Ukraine 2016 & Biden.

                        --Sam
                        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sam View Post
                          It wasn't a dispute about what was going on. It was Sonderland (who paid $1m to the Trump inaugural fund for his ambassadorship) knowing that you don't put down "we're doing the quid pro quo" on paper. And Taylor, a career diplomat, repeatedly making a record of "we're doing the quid pro quo and I object". I expect that we'll see memoranda from Taylor soon enough, along with direct testimony.

                          And if one can twist herself into the idea that it's a "difference of opinion", it wouldn't change the fact that there's a substantial and repeated record establishing that a presidential meeting was being held up in exchange for an investigation into how Ukraine oligarchs helped Clinton frame Russia/Trump for the DNC hack, which soon after morphed into two investigations, at Giuliani's direction, into Ukraine 2016 & Biden.

                          --Sam
                          And again:

                          Do you have proof this came directly from Trump’s mouth? Do you have proof this wasn’t just a disagreement between two US officials?

                          Yes or no?

                          BTW I find it funny that you make such a big deal about a US ambassador given an ambassadorship for donating money when that’s been going on for decades.
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                            And again:

                            Do you have proof this came directly from Trump’s mouth? Do you have proof this wasn’t just a disagreement between two US officials?

                            Yes or no?

                            BTW I find it funny that you make such a big deal about a US ambassador given an ambassadorship for donating money when that’s been going on for decades.
                            The point is that Sonderland understands what a quid pro quo entails.

                            I find it funny that the defense of Trump ("Did you actually HEAR him say it?") is lifted pretty much straight out of Godfather II.

                            --Sam
                            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Also...

                              Several Republican lawmakers said Mr. Volker’s testimony didn’t match the “narrative” coming from the pro-impeachment camp.

                              “Mr. Volker has been very impressive and has said nothing — nothing — that coincides with what the Democrats are saying,” said Rep. Jim Jordan, Ohio Republican.

                              https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...s-impeachment/

                              Sorry, guys, but this is looking like another swing and miss for your side.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment

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