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Volkers texts make it clear the investigation was a precondition

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  • #46
    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Which were supplied by....

    To support whose testimony...

    The texts are his own semi-private words, unfiltered, unspun for public consumption. They are a portion of the facts in this case. Volkers statement may or may not be unfiltered or unspun for public consumption based on political loyalties or personal safety. Such is reality.

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      The texts are his own semi-private words, unfiltered, unspun for public consumption. They are a portion of the facts in this case. Volkers statement may or may not be unfiltered or unspun for public consumption based on political loyalties or personal safety. Such is reality.

      Jim
      So the million dollar question:

      Why would he supply evidence that contradicts his testimony?

      Is he that stupid or is his text being spun, out of context, to fit a narrative?

      Pick your poison.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        Sam just stop, first, according to Volker the Burisma Group was involved in the 2016 U.S. elections, and that should be investigated. And the fact that we needed assurances that reforms which President Zelensky promised were in effect before we released the monies. And there is no problem with that. WHAT THEY DID NOT SAY WAS THAT ANYTHING WAS TIED TO THE INVESTIGATION OF BIDEN OR HIS SON. Period, end of story.
        Well, that's a new one. Points for the effort.

        Volker doesn't claim that Burisma did Ukraine 2016. It's almost comical that we've gone from "Trump was just talking about Crowdstrike not Biden" to "The Burisma Group hacked the DNC in 2016 and pinned it on the Russians and that's what Trump wants to investigate, not Biden."

        The timeline is clear: Giuliani is working in early 2019 to try and get Ukrainian prosecutors to investigate Ukraine 2016 & Biden through the Burisma Group. Giuliani has said (and keeps saying) as much. We have Volker and Taylor half-heartedly trying to steer the oncoming disaster away from these explicitly political goals, only to be overruled by Sonderland, Giuliani, & Trump. We have Trump in July 2019 telling Zelenskyy that he wants "a favor" after Zelenskyy brings up buying Javelin missiles: find out "the whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ..."

        Let's pause here and remind y'all that just last week you were arguing that Trump's "favor" was investigating the whereabouts of this mythical Crowdstrike server and that Trump's discussion about investigating Burisma and Hunter Biden was totally separate. Then the text messages were released, showing that Volker, Sonderland, and Giuliani were coordinating exactly these two "deliverables" with Ukraine in exchange for a WH "interview" and, later, military funding.

        Now the line is that Burisma Group is just connected to the Ukraine 2016 Conspiracy Theory, not to Hunter Biden. But Trump says in the call with Zelenskyy that he wants "Biden's son" investigated and explicitly ties it back to Shokin's "investigation" in 2015. And Giuliani, who has been directing the whole thing has been very clear that the Burisma investigation is all about the Bidens.

        So that's that. But y'all can't keep yourselves straight -- not that I'd do any better trying to spin this a new direction every few days (but that's a good reason to not even try).

        --Sam
        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Sam View Post
          Well, that's a new one. Points for the effort.

          Volker doesn't claim that Burisma did Ukraine 2016. It's almost comical that we've gone from "Trump was just talking about Crowdstrike not Biden" to "The Burisma Group hacked the DNC in 2016 and pinned it on the Russians and that's what Trump wants to investigate, not Biden."

          The timeline is clear: Giuliani is working in early 2019 to try and get Ukrainian prosecutors to investigate Ukraine 2016 & Biden through the Burisma Group. Giuliani has said (and keeps saying) as much. We have Volker and Taylor half-heartedly trying to steer the oncoming disaster away from these explicitly political goals, only to be overruled by Sonderland, Giuliani, & Trump. We have Trump in July 2019 telling Zelenskyy that he wants "a favor" after Zelenskyy brings up buying Javelin missiles: find out "the whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ..."

          Let's pause here and remind y'all that just last week you were arguing that Trump's "favor" was investigating the whereabouts of this mythical Crowdstrike server and that Trump's discussion about investigating Burisma and Hunter Biden was totally separate. Then the text messages were released, showing that Volker, Sonderland, and Giuliani were coordinating exactly these two "deliverables" with Ukraine in exchange for a WH "interview" and, later, military funding.

          Now the line is that Burisma Group is just connected to the Ukraine 2016 Conspiracy Theory, not to Hunter Biden. But Trump says in the call with Zelenskyy that he wants "Biden's son" investigated and explicitly ties it back to Shokin's "investigation" in 2015. And Giuliani, who has been directing the whole thing has been very clear that the Burisma investigation is all about the Bidens.

          So that's that. But y'all can't keep yourselves straight -- not that I'd do any better trying to spin this a new direction every few days (but that's a good reason to not even try).

          --Sam
          Sam, again, It was Volker who tied the Burisma Group in, and that is your opinion that they were trying to steer disaster away - perhaps the were just telling the truth. But again, as Volker testified to congress he never discussed Biden or his son in any of this. And when Trump asked for the favor it WAS about Crowdstrike, the release of that call makes it clear. The point is there was no pro quo’s of any kind. Now you can call Volker a liar.

          The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike… I guess you have one of your wealthy people… The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you’re surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it’s very important that you do it if that’s possible.

          President Zelensky: Yes it is very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President, it is very important and we are open for any future cooperation. We are ready to open a new page on cooperation in relations between the United States and Ukraine. For that purpose, I just recalled our ambassador from United States and he will be replaced by a very competent and very experienced ambassador who will work hard on making sure that our two nations are getting closer. I would also like and hope to see him having your trust and your confidence and have personal relations with you so we can cooperate even more so. I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr. Giuliani just recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. Giuliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we will meet once he comes to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again that you have nobody but friends around us. I will make sure that I surround myself with the best and most experienced people. I also wanted to tell you that we are friends. We are great friends and you Mr. President have friends in our country so we can continue our strategic partnership. I also plan to surround myself with great people and in addition to that investigation, I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly. That I can assure you...
          https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ent/2438300001
          Then Biden thing was then brought up. A completely different part of the conversation where the favor was mentioned.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Sam View Post
            Well, that's a new one. Points for the effort.

            Volker doesn't claim that Burisma did Ukraine 2016. It's almost comical that we've gone from "Trump was just talking about Crowdstrike not Biden" to "The Burisma Group hacked the DNC in 2016 and pinned it on the Russians and that's what Trump wants to investigate, not Biden."

            The timeline is clear: Giuliani is working in early 2019 to try and get Ukrainian prosecutors to investigate Ukraine 2016 & Biden through the Burisma Group. Giuliani has said (and keeps saying) as much. We have Volker and Taylor half-heartedly trying to steer the oncoming disaster away from these explicitly political goals, only to be overruled by Sonderland, Giuliani, & Trump. We have Trump in July 2019 telling Zelenskyy that he wants "a favor" after Zelenskyy brings up buying Javelin missiles: find out "the whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ..."

            Let's pause here and remind y'all that just last week you were arguing that Trump's "favor" was investigating the whereabouts of this mythical Crowdstrike server and that Trump's discussion about investigating Burisma and Hunter Biden was totally separate. Then the text messages were released, showing that Volker, Sonderland, and Giuliani were coordinating exactly these two "deliverables" with Ukraine in exchange for a WH "interview" and, later, military funding.

            Now the line is that Burisma Group is just connected to the Ukraine 2016 Conspiracy Theory, not to Hunter Biden. But Trump says in the call with Zelenskyy that he wants "Biden's son" investigated and explicitly ties it back to Shokin's "investigation" in 2015. And Giuliani, who has been directing the whole thing has been very clear that the Burisma investigation is all about the Bidens.

            So that's that. But y'all can't keep yourselves straight -- not that I'd do any better trying to spin this a new direction every few days (but that's a good reason to not even try).

            --Sam
            This is the sort of thing that is the required result when one is non-objectively trying to spin data into a preferred end result. It happens in psuedo scientific circles, e.g. YEC, when the data can - with some jiggling - be mapped into the preferred narrative - until new data comes along.

            It is almost always best to simply follow the data where it leads. If one's first conclusions were wrong, so be it. That becomes very difficult if one is personally invested in the outcome, and further complicated if there is a perceived possibility some of the data has been falsified.

            Jim
            He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

            "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              So the million dollar question:

              Why would he supply evidence that contradicts his testimony?

              Is he that stupid or is his text being spun, out of context, to fit a narrative?

              Pick your poison.
              It's not a bad question pix. But first we'd need to establish if your dichotomy is a truthful reflection of the current situation.

              Is it necessarily true that those are the only two options: he is stupid, or his text(s?) are being spun out of context.


              Jim
              He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

              "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                It's not a bad question pix. But first we'd need to establish if your dichotomy is a truthful reflection of the current situation.

                Is it necessarily true that those are the only two options: he is stupid, or his text(s?) are being spun out of context.


                Jim
                He did testify that he was unaware of any favor trading for dirt on Biden and supplied text he said supported what he said. That’s kinda of what we’re left with,

                He either isn’t too smart and supplied evidence that directly contradicts his public statements or his supplied text are being spun to support a narrative.
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • #53

                  Washington (CNN) — Former US special envoy for Ukraine Kurt Volker, who has become a key player in House Democrats' impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump, announced Monday he is stepping down as executive director of Arizona State University's McCain Institute.

                  "Today, I informed ASU President (Michael) Crow and Mrs. (Cindy) McCain that I believe the recent media focus on my work as U.S. Special Representative for Ukraine Negotiations risks becoming a distraction from the accomplishments and continued growth of the Institute, and therefore I am stepping down as Executive Director of the McCain Institute for International Leadership," Volker said in a statement.

                  https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/10/07...PV_532zSQvXqY-


                  No doubt, consumed by guilt.
                  Last edited by firstfloor; 10-07-2019, 04:07 PM.
                  “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                  “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                  “not all there” - you know who you are

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    He did testify that he was unaware of any favor trading for dirt on Biden and supplied text he said supported what he said. That’s kinda of what we’re left with,

                    He either isn’t too smart and supplied evidence that directly contradicts his public statements or his supplied text are being spun to support a narrative.
                    I would not be so quick to assume these are the only two options here. He may not have been aware that Trumps motive in pushing an investigation of Barisma was directed at Biden, whereas it is clear others that he was texting were on some level. He also is saying that HE was not or did not participate in such negotiations. He may have had to walk some very fine lines between doing his job and violating the law. He is doing a lot of resigning right now - there is a problem somewhere.

                    Jim
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-07-2019, 04:46 PM.
                    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      It is common -- and expected -- for people to do corrupt things and, in the process of extricating themselves from culpability, both provide incriminating information and declare that they were operating of good intent. See: Michael Cohen's 2018 testimony.

                      What would matter, much more than a self-congratulatory opening statement, are Volker's answers to specific questions under oath.

                      --Sam
                      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        He is doing a lot of resigning right now - there is a problem somewhere.
                        Or he's trying to avoid the Brett Kavanaugh treatment.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment

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