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Trump now openly asks China for help in the 2020 election

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
    He was fired for failing to investigating Burisma...
    Shokin testified in a sworn affidavit that the investigation was active, and he was preparing to move against the Burisma board, including Hunter Biden, at the time he was fired after Joe Biden's ultimatum.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Shokin testified in a sworn affidavit that the investigation was active, and he was preparing to move against the Burisma board, including Hunter Biden, at the time he was fired after Joe Biden's ultimatum.
      And his office gave Zlochevsky's lawyers a clean bill of health to end an investigation by the UK.

      I'm thinking he's probably lying.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Tassman View Post
        Interesting that over 60% of the population suffers from your so-called TDS.
        And over 40% think Biden helped his son with the investigation.
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        - Stephen R. Donaldson

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
          And his office gave Zlochevsky's lawyers a clean bill of health to end an investigation by the UK.

          I'm thinking he's probably lying.
          They are reopening a number of cases that were closed or abandoned.
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          - Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
            Biden is on video saying he withheld monies (guarantees) from the Urkaine until they got rid of a prosecutor investigating the company where Biden's son had a high paying job. But the Dems in Congress don't see this as evidence.
            Correction - Biden is on video telling about withholding money until the prosecutor (Shokin) was fired. Although Hunter Biden was on the board of Burisma at the time, there was no active investigation of Burisma underway at that time. There had been such an investigation prior to that time, for Burisma activities that pre-dated Hunter's membership on the board (the investigation focused on the Ministry of Ecology and special permits granted to Burisma from 2010-2012; Biden joined the board in 2014). These facts have been substantiated by multiple people on the international stage, as well leadership within Ukraine.

            What Trump is doing is conflating separate and unrelated facts to make the picture look bad and deflect from his own problems. Most of the right-wing outlets have picked up the lingo from Trump (as they have done with "witch hunt," and "fake news") and are using it as talking points. Biden DID pressure the Ukraine to fire the prosecutor (withholding funds to do so). Hunter Biden did/does serve on the Burisma board of directors. The investigator HAD investigated Burisma for possible inappropriate ties/activities with the Ministry of Ecology.

            There is NO evidence that I can find that Biden applied this pressure to protect his son, or that his son or the company for which he serves on the board was being investigated at the time the pressure was applied.

            Personally, I don't think Biden is going to get the nod for the nomination, so the issue will ultimately be moot. Trump should be considering turning his ire on Warren, who shows every sign of overtaking Biden. With Sander's illness further depressing enthusiasm for his presidential run, Warren is looking pretty strong right now.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
              And his office gave Zlochevsky's lawyers a clean bill of health to end an investigation by the UK.

              I'm thinking he's probably lying.
              'probably'? A leopard can't change his spots as the saying goes.
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Shokin testified in a sworn affidavit that the investigation was active, and he was preparing to move against the Burisma board, including Hunter Biden, at the time he was fired after Joe Biden's ultimatum.
                I'm not finding that. Do you have a link?

                Lutsenko (Shokin's successor) did support Trump's claim, and then recanted.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                  And over 40% think Biden helped his son with the investigation.
                  Which would basically align with the size of Trump's base...
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    False.

                    The controversy ignited anew earlier this year when I disclosed that Joe Biden admitted during a 2018 videotaped speech that, as vice president in March 2016, he threatened to cancel $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees, to pressure Ukraine’s then-President Petro Poroshenko to fire Shokin.

                    At the time, Shokin’s office was investigating Burisma. Shokin told me he was making plans to question Hunter Biden about $3 million in fees that Biden and his partner, Archer, collected from Burisma through their American firm. Documents seized by the FBI in an unrelated case confirm the payments, which in many months totaled more than $166,000.

                    Some media outlets have reported that, at the time Joe Biden forced the firing in March 2016, there were no open investigations. Those reports are wrong. A British-based investigation of Burisma's owner was closed down in early 2015 on a technicality when a deadline for documents was not met. But the Ukraine Prosecutor General's office still had two open inquiries in March 2016, according to the official case file provided me. One of those cases involved taxes; the other, allegations of corruption. Burisma announced the cases against it were not closed and settled until January 2017.

                    [...]

                    In a newly sworn affidavit prepared for a European court, Shokin testified that when he was fired in March 2016, he was told the reason was that Biden was unhappy about the Burisma investigation. “The truth is that I was forced out because I was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings, a natural gas firm active in Ukraine and Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, was a member of the Board of Directors,” Shokin testified.

                    “On several occasions President Poroshenko asked me to have a look at the case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company but I refused to close this investigation,” Shokin added.

                    https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign...wYDEV8.twitter
                    You're quoting an opinion piece with no links to supporting evidence?
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                      They are reopening a number of cases that were closed or abandoned.
                      Evidence shows this would never have happened under Shokin.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        You're quoting an opinion piece with no links to supporting evidence?
                        First of all, while it's published in the "opinion" section of the website, it is, in fact, good old fashioned investigative journalism. But even if it could technically be described as an "opinion piece", so what? Pointing this out does nothing to address the points made in the article itself and is just a genetic fallacy.

                        Second, did you even bother to go to the source? Because there are about a dozen links to various external articles and original sources throughout. I just didn't go to the trouble to copy the links into my post, but they're there in the original article.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Concerning, Shokin's corruption, I find...

                          - His ouster in March 2016 was linked in most press reports to allegations of corruption
                          - IMF chief Lagarde noted that I.M.F.-supported programs would likely discontinue unless corruption Ukraine's PGO accelerate corruption prosecutions.
                          - Pifer (U.S. Ambassodor to Ukraine and Asst. Secretary for European/Eurasian affairs - Clinton/Bush) has publicly noted Shokin's widespread reputation for turning a blind eye to corruption
                          - Pyatt (U.S. Ambassodor to Ukraine, Obama) noted the corruption problem in the PGO in late 2015
                          - Two of Shokin's own deputies spotlighted the corrupton problem and were summarily forced out by Shokin.
                          - Shokin's corruption prompted multiple in-country protests
                          - Shokin was well known for blocking attempts to have crooks arrested and their gains confiscated (even returning the diamonds seized from a corrupt Kyiv prosecutor's home to the corrupt prosecutor)

                          Although he is credited with helping maintain stability during the power transition in Ukraine, his corruption seems to be pretty well documented and pretty widely known.
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            You're quoting an opinion piece with no links to supporting evidence?
                            It's a John Solomon piece; Solomon was moved to op-ed after numerous people, including employees at The Hill (notorious for being a pass-thru for laundered lobbyist articles), complained about the quality and motive of Solomon's work.

                            Recently, the State Dept handed over a batch of documents concerning a smear campaign against Biden & others apparently directed by Giuliani. Solomon was found to have shared substantial pieces of these sorts of articles pre-publication with the cabal, flouting journalistic ethics.

                            An interesting character for history and an unreliable narrator for now.

                            --Sam
                            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              First of all, while it's published in the "opinion" section of the website, it is, in fact, good old fashioned investigative journalism. But even if it could technically be described as an "opinion piece", so what? Pointing this out does nothing to address the points made in the article itself and is just a genetic fallacy.
                              Pointing out that we have an opinion piece with no supporting evidence other than say so is not the "genetic fallacy." The context of the piece is "opinion," which speaks for itself. The lack of supporting evidence (other than someone told me so) is a factor most reasonable people should consider when evaluating such an article.

                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Second, did you even bother to go to the source? Because there are about a dozen links to various external articles and original sources throughout. I just didn't go to the trouble to copy the links into my post, but they're there in the original article.
                              I did, actually. Starting with the link to a memo about three U.S. citizens working for a private strategies company doing work for Burisma "apologizing" for miss-information. Their lack of appropriateness in doing so, their questionable motivations for doing so, and the entire odd exchange is...well...odd. The second link couldn't be read (by me because it was in what I can only assume is the Ukrainian language - or maybe Russian?). The NYT article is primarily focused on the "bad optics" of Biden taking his stand at the time that his son was taking up his board position. I agree with the article - the optics were/are bad and pretty much led to this current situation. Eventually - someone was likely to jump on it (as has happened). The article makes no claims of corruption. The Kyiv Post article cites decisions from 2014 and 2015. The article is ambiguous at best, citing "all investigations fully closed" but not citing any further investigatory actions post 2015. The article is an interview with a U.S. Legal representative for Burisma. The next link is a sworn testament from the man accused of corruption - which I hope you will forgive me for taking with a bit of a grain of salt.

                              And so it continues. The author is not engaging in "investigative journalism." If he had such a story, why not have it and all of its contents published as a front-page news article rather than an "opinion" piece? Probably because any editor worth his salt would have seen what I see: a stitched together fabric of innuendo and supposition to paint a picture the author wants to paint. Fodder for the opinion page - but not as an actual "new article."
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Sam View Post
                                It's a John Solomon piece; Solomon was moved to op-ed after numerous people, including employees at The Hill (notorious for being a pass-thru for laundered lobbyist articles), complained about the quality and motive of Solomon's work.

                                Recently, the State Dept handed over a batch of documents concerning a smear campaign against Biden & others apparently directed by Giuliani. Solomon was found to have shared substantial pieces of these sorts of articles pre-publication with the cabal, flouting journalistic ethics.

                                An interesting character for history and an unreliable narrator for now.

                                --Sam
                                I didn't investigate the author himself - but I cannot say I am surprised. The article MM linked reeks of this kind of shoddy journalism. I am frankly amazed that there are people out there who fall for this stuff. But then I guess if someone is willing to walk into a pizza parlor to find the victims of a child sex ring that Clinton has incarcerated there...
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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