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Trump now openly asks China for help in the 2020 election

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Sam View Post

    Recently, the State Dept handed over a batch of documents concerning a smear campaign against Biden & others apparently directed by Giuliani. Solomon was found to have shared substantial pieces of these sorts of articles pre-publication with the cabal, flouting journalistic ethics.
    Cabal? You need a new tinfoil hat too for the latest Trump-Ukraine conspiracy.
    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Sam View Post
      It's a John Solomon piece; Solomon was moved to op-ed after numerous people, including employees at The Hill (notorious for being a pass-thru for laundered lobbyist articles), complained about the quality and motive of Solomon's work.

      Recently, the State Dept handed over a batch of documents concerning a smear campaign against Biden & others apparently directed by Giuliani. Solomon was found to have shared substantial pieces of these sorts of articles pre-publication with the cabal, flouting journalistic ethics.

      An interesting character for history and an unreliable narrator for now.

      --Sam
      Whoa, I've read enough Solomon pieces to know he was awful, but this is beyond anything I'd suspected.

      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      Fodder for the opinion page - but not as an actual "new article."
      Umm, no, in any respectable publication, the editorial standards for fact do not change when the piece is published for op/ed.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
        Cabal? You need a new tinfoil hat too for the latest Trump-Ukraine conspiracy.
        Tinfoil hat' should be reserved for events claimed without any credible supporting evidence.

        Jim
        He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

        "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          Concerning, Shokin's corruption, I find...

          - His ouster in March 2016 was linked in most press reports to allegations of corruption
          The funny thing is, I can only find rumors and press reports alleging he was corrupt, but has it ever actually been proven? People keep saying, "It was well known," but last I checked, "well known" isn't a synonym for "true".
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            Tinfoil hat' should be reserved for events claimed without any credible supporting evidence.

            Jim
            Let's make a deal: you publicly admit that you believe in conspiracies (Trump-Russia, Trump-Ukraine, Trump-Guiliani-Barr-Zelensky-etc or whatever) because you think there is credible supporting evidence for them, and I'll not use 'tinfoil hat' to describe those theories.
            Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Sam View Post
              It's a John Solomon piece...
              ...who names names and provides links to original sources and documents to back up his claims. It's solid work and not the typical "sources say" rubbish you get from disreputable rags like The New York Times.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                I did, actually. Starting with the link to a memo about three U.S. citizens working for a private strategies company doing work for Burisma "apologizing" for miss-information. Their lack of appropriateness in doing so, their questionable motivations for doing so, and the entire odd exchange is...well...odd. The second link couldn't be read (by me because it was in what I can only assume is the Ukrainian language - or maybe Russian?). The NYT article is primarily focused on the "bad optics" of Biden taking his stand at the time that his son was taking up his board position. I agree with the article - the optics were/are bad and pretty much led to this current situation. Eventually - someone was likely to jump on it (as has happened). The article makes no claims of corruption. The Kyiv Post article cites decisions from 2014 and 2015. The article is ambiguous at best, citing "all investigations fully closed" but not citing any further investigatory actions post 2015. The article is an interview with a U.S. Legal representative for Burisma. The next link is a sworn testament from the man accused of corruption - which I hope you will forgive me for taking with a bit of a grain of salt.

                And so it continues. The author is not engaging in "investigative journalism." If he had such a story, why not have it and all of its contents published as a front-page news article rather than an "opinion" piece? Probably because any editor worth his salt would have seen what I see: a stitched together fabric of innuendo and supposition to paint a picture the author wants to paint. Fodder for the opinion page - but not as an actual "new article."
                So what you're saying is that in typical carpe fashion, you read the article, looked for any flimsy excuse you could to dismiss the on-the-record sources and links to original documents, and told a little "fib" when you claimed that the author were merely speaking his "opinion" without backing it up with evidence.

                Okay then...
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                  Whoa, I've read enough Solomon pieces to know he was awful, but this is beyond anything I'd suspected.

                  Umm, no, in any respectable publication, the editorial standards for fact do not change when the piece is published for op/ed.
                  Actually - that's a good point and I stand corrected. I do think, however, that the Op/Ed page (pretty much by definition) allows for opinion in a way that front-page news typically does (or at least did) not. Solomon didn't make up any of the "facts" that he quotes. He just gathered them together and spun them into a highly slanted (and opinionated) conclusion that he can get away with by being on the opinion page. The casual reader might not pay close enough attention to notice.

                  Of course, there are also those who so want this all to be true, they'll believe anything that confirms that desire.

                  (Of course, they'll make the reverse claim that there are those who so do not want it to be true, they'll believe anything that confirms that desire. Except I really don't have a significant oar in the Democratic pool. If Biden were guilty, he should be out. Though I think Biden's right to hold a more moderate position on a lot of things, I'll take anyone that can show Trump the door).
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    The funny thing is, I can only find rumors and press reports alleging he was corrupt, but has it ever actually been proven? People keep saying, "It was well known," but last I checked, "well known" isn't a synonym for "true".
                    It was one point of evidence, MM - not the entire argument. The specific incidents cited of his obstructing investigations and even returning ill-gotten gains, coupled with the positions taken by fairly reputable people on his job performance, is enough for me to accept that they were dealing with (at worst) corruption and/or (at best) failure to perform their job.
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      So what you're saying is that in typical carpe fashion, you read the article, looked for any flimsy excuse you could to dismiss the on-the-record sources and links to original documents, and told a little "fib" when you claimed that the author were merely speaking his "opinion" without backing it up with evidence.

                      Okay then...
                      No - what I'm saying is Solomon assembled "facts" and then spun them into one possible interpretation that requires massive assumptions about motivations, relevance, and even timelines. It's a skewed hatchet piece not worth any serious reader's time. It has already had more of mine than it deserves. If you find it compelling - go for it. I'll leave you to it.
                      Last edited by carpedm9587; 10-06-2019, 07:06 PM.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        Solomon didn't make up any of the "facts" that he quotes.
                        That's not the standard, either. Facts used in an op/ed have to meet the same standard as facts used in a news report, which amounts to two reliable and independent sources. This just doesn't.

                        It's been in the press for years that the British investigation was closed down when Shokin's office publicly absolved Zlochevsky. Upthread, I posted remarks from our ambassador:

                        US Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt at the Odesa Financial Forum on September 24, 2015:
                        For example, in the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky, the U.K. authorities had seized 23 million dollars in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people.

                        Officials at the PGO’s office were asked by the U.K to send documents supporting the seizure.

                        Instead they sent letters to Zlochevsky’s attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a result the money was freed by the U.K. court and shortly thereafter the money was moved to Cyprus.

                        v.

                        Solomon:
                        A British-based investigation of Burisma's owner was closed down in early 2015 on a technicality when a deadline for documents was not met.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          No - what I'm saying is Solomon assembled "facts" and then spun them into one possible interpretation that requires massive assumptions about motivations, relevance, and even timelines. It's a skewed hatchet piece not worth any serious reader's time. It has already had more of mine than it deserves. If you find it compelling - go for it. I'll leave you to it.
                          This reminds me of the time you claimed that Breitbart reported the straight facts only as a deceptive ruse to prevent critics from accusing them of not reporting the straight facts. If only all news sources were so devious.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                            And over 40% think Biden helped his son with the investigation.
                            Ah yes. That'd be Trump's base providing its usual source of comfort for him by believing all his lying crap. This amid his ongoing "below average" approval ratings.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              Ah yes. That'd be Trump's base providing its usual source of comfort for him by believing all his lying crap. This amid his ongoing "below average" approval ratings.
                              20% of the Dems surveyed in that particular survey also believe Biden did something illegal.
                              That's what
                              - She

                              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                              Stephen R. Donaldson

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                                Let's make a deal: you publicly admit that you believe in conspiracies (Trump-Russia, Trump-Ukraine, Trump-Guiliani-Barr-Zelensky-etc or whatever) because you think there is credible supporting evidence for them, and I'll not use 'tinfoil hat' to describe those theories.
                                Demi, what ever happened to your Russian accent?

                                Comment

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