Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Trump declares himself above the law.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by Charles View Post
    I would say it is a bit more complicated than that:

    ...

    He [Ekeland] also offered the following counterfactual argument in favor of subjecting a sitting president to criminal law:

    If the President were to rape, and then murder, a citizen on national television by shooting them in the head on 5th Ave in broad daylight, does the Constitution dictate that nothing can be done to the President with the possible exception of Impeachment? And if so, can the President rape and murder until impeachment proceedings wind their way through Congress?


    https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...vestigate-him/
    I would expect a criminal defense lawyer to know better than to appreal to the straw man fallacy.

    What the President's lawyers actually said:

    The framers of our Constitution understood that state and local prosecutors would be tempted to criminally investigate the President to advance their own careers and to advance their political agendas,” the lawsuit adds. "And they likewise understood that having to defend against these actions would distract the President from his constitutional duties. That is why the Framers eliminated this possibility and assigned the task to supermajorities of Congress acting with the imprimatur of the nation as a whole."

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...s-tax-returns/

    Clearly the intent here is not to place the President above the law but to protect him from frivolous and politically motivated legal action, which this certainly is.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Psssshawww... when Rogue was 10, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission was at our house, and he was leading them around by the nose!
      It was the Defense Intelligence Agency and I was in 7th grade.


      That was the first report/file in my file that the FOIA request nearly 20 years ago disclosed.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        It was the Defense Intelligence Agency* and I was in 7th grade.
        You mean, it was them, TOO!!!!

        That was the first report/file in my file that the FOIA request nearly 20 years ago disclosed.
        Mom got SO TIRED of being "badged" every time she answered the door.



        *they weren't formed til 1961
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          You mean, it was them, TOO!!!!
          Well, the very first time I crossed paths with the law was when I was all of 3 years old.

          The truant officers (they still had them back then) came to our house wondering why I wasn't in school.

          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Mom got SO TIRED of being "badged" every time she answered the door.
          The second time was while in Miami and probably 6 years old and I managed to get to the roof of the main part of the hotel we were in and then climbed up the outside of the building the next three stories (I think) which caused a bit of a ruckus when I was spotted up there. Fire Department thought they had a jumper rather than an overly-adventurous 6 year old.

          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          *they weren't formed til 1961
          A few years after that.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Don't pretend this is the only issue where you're at odds with Trump in a big way. You are consumed with your hatred of him. It's the biggest thing you and JimL have in common. I expect it from him, though - he's lost as a goose.
            Hatred isn't the right word cp. And it's simply wrong for you to consistently characterize my objections to trump as hatred. Hatred implies something far more personal than what motivates me. My objections to what he is doing have been clearly expressed, and they are not based on hatred. They are based on his actions and his constant subversion of basic moral values and honor.

            Jim
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              I'm just not as consumed with hatred of Trump as you and your fellow haters.
              Of course you're not, you support him. The problem is that you should be as consumed with hatred for what he's doing, but you pretend not to see it.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                And you aren't the first or only one to mention that Ox has been questioning how good of a Christian various members are if they don't agree with his assessments of Trump's behavior. When one person notices it, it might be a miscommunication or a mistake, but when several people notice and mention the same thing, it's time to take a serious look.
                It doesn't mean anything here. There is some sort of very odd group think thing that goes on here within the subgroup I sometimes refer to as the peanut gallery. None of them can read my posts and understand my posts. It always gets twisted up in very bizarre ways. I rely on those I trust to read my posts and I ask them what I said. They usually tell me what I thought I said. They have also helped me to understand some of the things that have set you guys off, and I'm working to correct those as much as possible. But there is nothing I can do that will correct the sort of gross misunderstanding and/or distortions of my words that are reflected in MM's characterizations in the three examples and what I actually said.

                Jim
                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Clearly the intent here is not to place the President above the law but to protect him from frivolous and politically motivated legal action, which this certainly is.
                  It is easy to make such a statement. I am sure you would be unhappy seeing it used in many other contexts by other presidents.

                  By the way the intent with Ekeland's counterfactual example was to question exactly where we would end if we accepted the idea proposed by Trump's lawyers. It seems you missed that point.
                  "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    Hatred isn't the right word cp. And it's simply wrong for you to consistently characterize my objections to trump as hatred. Hatred implies something far more personal than what motivates me. My objections to what he is doing have been clearly expressed, and they are not based on hatred. They are based on his actions and his constant subversion of basic moral values and honor.

                    Jim
                    Walks like it, talks like it.... Trump lives rent-free in your head, Jim. It's pretty much all you talk about anymore.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Charles View Post
                      It is easy to make such a statement. I am sure you would be unhappy seeing it used in many other contexts by other presidents....
                      What "other presidents" have been lied about and hounded and investigated and ganged up on both by the liberal politicians and the MSM day in and day out to the extent Trump has?
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        What "other presidents" have been lied about and hounded and investigated and ganged up on both by the liberal politicians and the MSM day in and day out to the extent Trump has?
                        what other president has continuously lied about nearly everything since his inauguration? What other president has taken such cheap potshots at everyday citizens, what other president has abused the powerof office as he has, or has completely laughed in the face of subpoenas, or so consistently tried to explicitly reduce public trust in the free press or so willingly deferred to the ideas driving white supremacists. I could go on and on, but Trump has earned every criticism. He earns them daily, this whistleblower thing just the latest in a long string of such events.

                        Before you fret about how much he is criticized, you need to find some room where you can throw off your 'hatred' of the MSM and ask objectively how much he has EARNED the criticism he gets.


                        Jim
                        Last edited by oxmixmudd; 09-21-2019, 09:16 AM.
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                          Ekeland's counterfactual example was to question exactly where we would end if we accepted the idea proposed by Trump's lawyers. It seems you missed that point.
                          Except he took "the idea proposed by Trump's lawyers", twisted it into an absurd parody, and then proceeded to knock down the weak argument of his own making. It's a classic straw man fallacy.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            what other president has continuously lied about nearly everything since his inauguration? What other president has taken such cheap potshots at everyday citizens, what other president has abused the powerof office as he has, or has completely laughed in the face of subpoenas, or so consistently tried to explicitly reduce public trust in the free press or so willingly deferred to the ideas driving white supremacists. I could go on and on, but Trump has earned every criticism.
                            Oh, you WILL go on, and on, and on, and on....

                            He earns them daily, this whistleblower thing just the latest in a long string of such events.
                            The whole political system has degenerated into a real cesspoool, Jim. Trump is a jackass - I have never said otherwise. But, SHEEEESH, every week there's a new "WE GOT HIM NOW!!!!!"

                            Before you fret
                            Fret?

                            about how much he is criticized, you need to find some room where you can throw off your 'hatred' of the MSM and ask objectively how much he has EARNED the criticism he gets.


                            Jim
                            You are amusing.
                            Last edited by Cow Poke; 09-21-2019, 09:45 AM.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              ...you need to find some room where you can throw off your 'hatred' of the MSM...
                              Something to think about, Jim....

                              I'm not so consumed with the MSM that that's all I write about. I write about witnessing, being blessed, joy, scripture, bacon, goofy stuff.... You seem pretty much consumed with "Trump BAD".

                              He OWNS you, Jim. He's in your head and under your skin. He seems to be what you think about when you get up and when you go to bed.

                              He's a jackass - but it wouldn't be the first time God used a jackass to accomplish his purpose. And, in just over a year, the American people will have an opportunity to present the verdict on whether he gets another term.

                              Meanwhile, I'm instructed to pray for those in authority over us - our government leaders - and there doesn't seem to be any "only if you like them" condition.

                              Trump is controlling your thoughts and your actions. In that, you have more of a fellowship with JimL and Tassman than you do your Christian brothers and sisters.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                Something to think about, Jim....

                                I'm not so consumed with the MSM that that's all I write about. I write about witnessing, being blessed, joy, scripture, bacon, goofy stuff.... You seem pretty much consumed with "Trump BAD".

                                He OWNS you, Jim. He's in your head and under your skin. He seems to be what you think about when you get up and when you go to bed.

                                He's a jackass - but it wouldn't be the first time God used a jackass to accomplish his purpose. And, in just over a year, the American people will have an opportunity to present the verdict on whether he gets another term.

                                Meanwhile, I'm instructed to pray for those in authority over us - our government leaders - and there doesn't seem to be any "only if you like them" condition.

                                Trump is controlling your thoughts and your actions. In that, you have more of a fellowship with JimL and Tassman than you do your Christian brothers and sisters.
                                Most of my day is spent with family, researching, writing code, learning or singing music, cycling, hiking, reading, praying etc etc. I write in one forum here so as to limit its reach in my life. And I literally have far more concern for the effect of excusing Trump on the witness of the church in the world than I do on Trump himself. My appeals are always to the truth of scripture as it butts up against what compromises are required to support this man.

                                I can see that you are expressing concern for me though, and I do very much appreciate that.

                                I often found in nat sci that I would have more in common scientifically with the non Christian's than the christian creationists on that topic. And it is no different here. But dont forget I found myself in complete disagreement with all those same people on the issue of the artiste baker that would not create a specialty cake celebrating a gay marriage. I am motivated by what I understand to be truth, and I will stand with whoever is speaking the truth on a given topic.

                                We really should be of a similar mind on this topic too. That is, again, my primary concern.


                                Jim
                                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                148 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                395 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                113 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                197 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                367 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X