Originally posted by Sam
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
Trump Administration Whistleblower Cover-Up
Collapse
X
-
Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostYou're right, it's more than just a rumor at this point. We know for a fact that Shifty Schiff had direct contact with the whistleblower and was given details of the complaint prior to the whistleblower going to the IG.
“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sam View Post“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.”
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...-it-was-filed/Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sam View PostGood practice for y'all:
Ask yourself "Why was this law enacted?"
The original Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989 excluded employees of the intelligence community from its protections against retaliation. To remedy this exclusion, Congress in 1998 passed the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act
Was Congress trying to gag people from coming forward with allegations of abuse? Was it trying to make sure that IC employees couldn't share even non-classified information with people outside the IC? Or was Congress trying to fix a loophole in whistleblower protection laws that didn't take classified information into account?
If the former: you might have an argument regarding this case (but would still run afoul of 1A)
If the latter: there is no argument to be made and it's just a bad reading of the law from the start
(Hint: the legislative history shows that it's the latter)
--Sam
So, again, you are wrong. It did not have to do with SPECIFICALLY classified information.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostWhile technically a campaign finance law, the statute violated in this instance isn't really concerned with finance, but with foreign influence.
Asking the governor of Florida to investigate your political opponents is legal.
Asking the governor of Jamaica to investigate your political opponents is illegal.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sam View PostYes, true -- what I'm referring to, though, is that Trump has already been directly implicated in a felony campaign finance reform case brought to court by SDNY ("Individual-1" in the Stormy Daniels payment).
So Trump, unlike Obama, personally directed a direct, felonious (successful!) attempt to illegally affect his election and we don't even have to get into the suddenly-shifting sand of whether asking foreign countries to feed election assistance is a bad thing.
--SamThat's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
-
As we already established earlier, the ICWPA does not actually contain protections against retaliation for whistleblowers. PPD-19 was created much later to protect whistleblowers from retaliation. What ICWPA does is define a lawful process for the sharing of classified information contained in a whistleblower complaint.
So either legislators wrote a law that completely omitted their express intent for writing the law (weird!) or you are, again, wrong.
But, hey -- Trump managed to get an AG in William Barr who led DOJ straight into a rare brush-back by a grand jury in seeking an indictment of Andy McCabe. So maybe Trump & Barr can team up and test out your interpretation.
--Sam
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostThe original Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989 excluded employees of the intelligence community from its protections against retaliation. To remedy this exclusion, Congress in 1998 passed the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act
Nope. They were fixing a loophole that left an entire community out.
Indeed. The history does show us what the compromise was about:
So, again, you are wrong. It did not have to do with SPECIFICALLY classified information."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostWhile technically a campaign finance law, the statute violated in this instance isn't really concerned with finance, but with foreign influence.
Asking the governor of Florida to investigate your political opponents is legal.
Asking the governor of Jamaica to investigate your political opponents is illegal.
Unless you can find a clause in the relevant statute that makes this exception?Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sam View PostAs we already established earlier, the ICWPA does not actually contain protections against retaliation for whistleblowers. PPD-19 was created much later to protect whistleblowers from retaliation. What ICWPA does is define a lawful process for the sharing of classified information contained in a whistleblower complaint.
So either legislators wrote a law that completely omitted their express intent for writing the law (weird!) or you are, again, wrong.
:snip:ped your irrelevant tripeThat's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
-
Originally posted by Roy View PostYes, even then.
Unless you can find a clause in the relevant statute that makes this exception?
**Edit to ad** Biden running for President does not make him any more immune to legal scrutiny. To quote Pelosi... "No one should be above the law."That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
-
The Washington Post’s “Fact Checker” column hit House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-CA) with four Pinocchios Friday for falsely claiming that his panel had “not spoken directly” with the partisan CIA officer behind a so-called “whistleblower” complaint about President Donald Trump.
https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/...t-false-claim/
Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostWhat law or statute is he accused of breaking?
I can't find any exception if the solicitation concerns acts of fraud.
Can you?
Also, how did you know there was such an exception without knowing which statue it was an exception to?
**Edit to ad** Biden running for President does not make him any more immune to legal scrutiny. To quote Pelosi... "No one should be above the law."Last edited by Roy; 10-04-2019, 11:11 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostSimply false. How many times must I repeat myself? The ICWPA and subsequent PPD-19 deal with ALL whistleblower information from the Intelligence Community, not just classified information. Hence the bolded part "OR OTHERWISE" in the report from Congress on the inception of the Act. The Intelligence Community lacked their own whistleblower process, so the ICWPA was drafted and passed. PPD-19 added protections for the whistleblower to the Act.
I literally QUOTED the report and the site I retrieved it from. What the hell do you think "classified OR OTHERWISE" means?
:snip:ped your irrelevant tripe
Always helpful to actually read the statutes you're bold-texting cherry-picked clauses from. In this instance, just reading the link you provided would showcase the congressional intent:
You would also find this section relatively quickly:
And you might also be struck by the use of the word "may" numerous times in reference to reporting to the ICIG. Classified information must lawfully pass through ICWPA in order to avoid other laws against disclosure of classified information but nothing in ICWPA says that an employee must contact ICIG with allegations that do not contain classified information before making those allegations to another party.
As I'm frequently saying, gotta be able to both read and understand the legal stuff if you're wanting to make a legal argument ... especially one that's contradicted by the people in charge of enforcing the statute!
--Sam
*Emphasis added"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
Comment
-
Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostWhat law or statute is he accused of breaking?
**Edit to ad** Biden running for President does not make him any more immune to legal scrutiny. To quote Pelosi... "No one should be above the law."
The same people making this argument now on the basis of absolutely no evidence other than speculation decry every attempt to investigate, say, Trump's tax returns as a partisan witch hunt, despite copious circumstantial evidence of criminal behavior.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sam View PostWhat campaign finance violation was the Obama campaign found to have made?
What sort of comparable fines have been levied against Trump or his campaign.
And here's something for you to mull over. Why do you think that there is such a startling difference?
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by seer, Yesterday, 02:09 PM
|
5 responses
50 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by eider
Today, 02:27 AM
|
||
Started by seanD, Yesterday, 01:25 PM
|
0 responses
10 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seanD
Yesterday, 01:25 PM
|
||
Started by VonTastrophe, Yesterday, 08:53 AM
|
0 responses
26 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by oxmixmudd
Yesterday, 10:08 AM
|
||
Started by seer, 04-18-2024, 01:12 PM
|
28 responses
199 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by oxmixmudd
Yesterday, 11:00 AM
|
||
Started by rogue06, 04-17-2024, 09:33 AM
|
65 responses
462 views
1 like
|
Last Post
by Sparko
Yesterday, 10:40 AM
|
Comment