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Trump Administration Whistleblower Cover-Up

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  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Because whistle-blowers are protected from retaliation through anonymity. That protection is necessary to make it possible for whistle-blowers to exist. It really isn't all that complicated. And this is not democrat/republican. This is just how these laws work.

    And if you doubt the need for such laws, then all you need to do is consider what happens to people who blow the whistle on powerful people where their identifies are well known.

    say - journalists in Russia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lled_in_Russia

    or consider this article on whistle-blowing:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellypo.../#7bff2ec36a9b

    consider:

    Source: above

    Years later, I learned that the Space Shuttle Challenger could have been prevented if only the whistle-blower was heard. Whistle-blower Roger Boisjoly tried to warn NASA the night before the launch that the O rings would fail if the shuttle was launched in cold weather. No one listened. After Boisjoly testified to the Rogers Commission about his research findings, Boisjoly was shunned by his colleagues and faced extreme retaliation. He later resigned from his company due to the pressure of being labeled a whistle-blower. Boisjoly was trying to save 7 innocent lives. Should he be classified as a snitch?

    © Copyright Original Source



    or perhaps this from the same article:

    Source: above

    Another person I met while conducting these interviews was whistle-blower Mary Willingham. If you were to google Mary’s name you will see that she is the person that exposed the 20-year UNC academic fraud case. Mary was a learning specialist at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and noticed that students, particularly student athletes, with low reading abilities were turning in research papers that appeared well beyond their reading levels. After asking a few questions, she discovered a system that was designed to keep student athletes primarily eligible to play sports. Mary was outraged and proceeded to tell her supervisor. When speaking to her supervisor didn’t work, she attempted to speak to internal university administrators but again, no one did anything about it. She decided to blog about her observations and the blog went viral in 24 hours. She then teamed up with reporter Dan Kane and together they exposed the story. Mary believed that she was doing the right thing by speaking up for students who otherwise felt voiceless. Mary did not do anything wrong. She didn’t create nor participate in the fraud scandal and yet, she was isolated, demoted and received numerous death threats over…NCAA collegiate sports.

    © Copyright Original Source



    People like Donald Trump WILL retaliate against anyone that sheds a bad light on him, let alone someone that actually endangers him by exposing his private misdeeds. And as president, he has nearly limitless resources in terms of what form that retaliation could take. And so this person needs our protection and he needs his anonymity. The facts will be investigated, and Trump will only have anything to worry about if what the whistle-blower has said turns out to be true.



    Jim
    Specious reasoning. Retaliation can only really happen in secret and not when it's a national news story that everybody is talking about. Seriously, if the dude's identity was announced today, and Trump were to then make some retaliatory move against him, how do you think that would play for Trump?

    But beyond that, there's the matter that if answers are submitted anonymously in writing then House members will not be allowed to assess the witnesses credentials and credibility, or observe his demeanor under questioning; and what guarantee is there that the anonymous answers are really coming directly from the witness himself and aren't being parsed by his lawyers first, or prepared by a committee, possibly with input from members of Congress and others who have a vested interest in him delivering the "correct" answers?

    Again I say, if they can pull this on the President of the United States then what's to stop them from pulling it on you?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Andy McCabe lost his job just before retirement and the DOJ reportedly tried to indict him, only to be handed a rare refusal by a grand jury. He's currently suing the government for wrongful termination and there's a good chance he'll win.

      We've already seen Trump retaliate and we've already seen the damage it causes. If the whistleblower were unmasked tomorrow, lost their job on Monday, and spent the next five years fending off death threats while paying a fortune in legal fees associated with suing the government, guys like you would just be arguing that they deserved it, latching onto any half-brained conspiracy to justify the animus.

      --Sam

      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Specious reasoning. Retaliation can only really happen in secret and not when it's a national news story that everybody is talking about. Seriously, if the dude's identity was announced today, and Trump were to then make some retaliatory move against him, how do you think that would play for Trump?

      But beyond that, there's the matter that if answers are submitted anonymously in writing then House members will not be allowed to assess the witnesses credentials and credibility, or observe his demeanor under questioning; and what guarantee is there that the anonymous answers are really coming directly from the witness himself and aren't being parsed by his lawyers first, or prepared by a committee, possibly with input from members of Congress and others who have a vested interest in him delivering the "correct" answers?

      Again I say, if they can pull this on the President of the United States then what's to stop them from pulling it on you?
      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

      Comment


      • The plot is being laid bare:


        Two Florida businessmen tied to President Donald Trump’s lawyer and the Ukraine impeachment investigation were charged with federal campaign finance violations.

        The charges Thursday relate to a $325,000 donation to a group supporting Trump’s reelection.

        Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, associates of Rudy Giuliani, were arrested Wednesday trying to board an international flight with one-way tickets at Dulles International Airport in Virginia, according to Geoffrey Berman, the U.S. attorney in Manhattan.

        Parnas and Fruman were arrested on a four-count indictment that includes charges of conspiracy, making false statements to the Federal Election Commission and falsification of records. The men had key roles in Giuliani’s efforts to launch a Ukrainian corruption investigation against Democratic presidential contender Joe Biden and his son Hunter.
        https://apnews.com/c9125e9ccd894965bbf2860100366779
        Last edited by firstfloor; 10-11-2019, 11:22 AM.
        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
        “not all there” - you know who you are

        Comment


        • Ya know, at this point, all the House has to do is have a floor vote and issue real subpoenas - if the Admin refuses to comply, they have a danged good case for cover up.

          But they're too busy with the smoke and mirrors.

          The whistle blower can't stay hidden much longer - too much is already known and it's just a matter of time before his/her ID comes out. Some reporter will find it - or the Senate will demand public testimony - I'm betting on the reporter at this point - some one is gonna figure it out and leak it.

          Heck, it could happen in a court fight - assuming the House wants to try and enforce any of its current demands - the basis of the subpoena becomes fair game.

          The only end game I see is to throw out articles - but at this point, it's premature and the Senate could lob it back in their faces with a dismissal (once this crap hits the Senate, they can dismiss for cause - and highlight the House Democrat skulduggery). So, they drag on to avoid looking like amateurs while looking like partisan hacks.

          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

          Quill Sword

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

            People like Donald Trump WILL retaliate against anyone that sheds a bad light on him, let alone someone that actually endangers him by exposing his private misdeeds. And as president, he has nearly limitless resources in terms of what form that retaliation could take. And so this person needs our protection and he needs his anonymity. The facts will be investigated, and Trump will only have anything to worry about if what the whistle-blower has said turns out to be true.



            Jim
            So you like the fact that an impeachment inquiry to remove a President has been done in secret so far? The Dems won't even release Volker's testimony. The Former US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch is now testifying behind close doors. A true Star Chamber Jim, no matter how you cut it...
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sam View Post
              Andy McCabe lost his job just before retirement and the DOJ reportedly tried to indict him, only to be handed a rare refusal by a grand jury. He's currently suing the government for wrongful termination and there's a good chance he'll win.
              As usual, it's not as simple as that...

              Again, as with the earlier Strzok lawsuit, both are not going through the process within the Department of Labor for a wrongful termination complaint. Instead both are using federal courts in an effort to construct a narrative of sorts.

              The motive here is 100% political obfuscation, and the same Lawfare team is involved in the construct.

              Both Andrew McCabe and Peter Strzok are claiming their first amendment (speech) and fifth amendment (due process) rights were violated. Both have filed civil suits under the same pretext. However, McCabe’s Lawfare lawyers construct an argument that goes one step further.

              According to Andrew McCabe, President Donald Trump constructed a master conspiracy of influence upon the DOJ and FBI; thereby usurping the powers of the constitution in a sketchy legal theory they cannot define. Thus the McCabe lawyers define the action by President Trump under “legal nullity” – An operation that theoretically is, or might be, of some legal significance, but in fact lacks any identity or distinct structure of its own.

              https://theconservativetreehouse.com...n-against-him/


              Originally posted by Sam View Post
              ...guys like you would just be arguing that they deserved it...
              It's always a good idea to base one's arguments around unfounded assumptions about how one's opponent might or might not respond to a hypothetical scenario.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                Maybe if you find yourself on the side of the President who calls the whistleblower a "spy" and has already launched numerous retaliatory campaigns against career officials who have had a part in uncovering his corrupt acts and you don't think this whistleblower has a legitimate reason to remain anonymous to the President ... well, then you have to ask yourself "Are we the baddies?"

                --Sam
                I heard you’re a serial killer from an second hand source that claims he heard it from a member of your family. Hope you enjoy your prison sentence because don’t worry, you can’t face your accuser because they fear you’ll kill them and their families. See you in 30 years to never.
                Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-11-2019, 11:48 AM.
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  Whistleblowers aren't named in order that they be protected from retaliation, not to mention from whack jobs like many Trump supporters. Whistleblowers simply give the evidence to the IG who himself determines the necessity of the need to investigate, which he does. It is the IG, not the whistlblower, who, finding the info evidential, turns it over to Congress, not the whistleblower. And the vote on the floor will come when the articles of impeachment are determined. That's how it works.
                  I heard, from a source, you helped Sam do it. See you in 15 years.
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                    Because whistle-blowers are protected from retaliation through anonymity. That protection is necessary to make it possible for whistle-blowers to exist. It really isn't all that complicated. And this is not democrat/republican. This is just how these laws work.

                    And if you doubt the need for such laws, then all you need to do is consider what happens to people who blow the whistle on powerful people where their identifies are well known.

                    say - journalists in Russia:

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lled_in_Russia

                    or consider this article on whistle-blowing:

                    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellypo.../#7bff2ec36a9b

                    consider:

                    Source: above

                    Years later, I learned that the Space Shuttle Challenger could have been prevented if only the whistle-blower was heard. Whistle-blower Roger Boisjoly tried to warn NASA the night before the launch that the O rings would fail if the shuttle was launched in cold weather. No one listened. After Boisjoly testified to the Rogers Commission about his research findings, Boisjoly was shunned by his colleagues and faced extreme retaliation. He later resigned from his company due to the pressure of being labeled a whistle-blower. Boisjoly was trying to save 7 innocent lives. Should he be classified as a snitch?

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    or perhaps this from the same article:

                    Source: above

                    Another person I met while conducting these interviews was whistle-blower Mary Willingham. If you were to google Mary’s name you will see that she is the person that exposed the 20-year UNC academic fraud case. Mary was a learning specialist at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and noticed that students, particularly student athletes, with low reading abilities were turning in research papers that appeared well beyond their reading levels. After asking a few questions, she discovered a system that was designed to keep student athletes primarily eligible to play sports. Mary was outraged and proceeded to tell her supervisor. When speaking to her supervisor didn’t work, she attempted to speak to internal university administrators but again, no one did anything about it. She decided to blog about her observations and the blog went viral in 24 hours. She then teamed up with reporter Dan Kane and together they exposed the story. Mary believed that she was doing the right thing by speaking up for students who otherwise felt voiceless. Mary did not do anything wrong. She didn’t create nor participate in the fraud scandal and yet, she was isolated, demoted and received numerous death threats over…NCAA collegiate sports.

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    People like Donald Trump WILL retaliate against anyone that sheds a bad light on him, let alone someone that actually endangers him by exposing his private misdeeds. And as president, he has nearly limitless resources in terms of what form that retaliation could take. And so this person needs our protection and he needs his anonymity. The facts will be investigated, and Trump will only have anything to worry about if what the whistle-blower has said turns out to be true.



                    Jim
                    You helped Sam kill 10 people according to my source. See you in 30 years.
                    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post
                      So you like the fact that an impeachment inquiry to remove a President has been done in secret so far? The Dems won't even release Volker's testimony. The Former US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch is now testifying behind close doors. A true Star Chamber Jim, no matter how you cut it...
                      Initial depositions, whether in a grand jury investigation or an impeachment investigation, are not typically public hearings. In Yovanovitch's case, the hearing was done in the House SCIF, indicating that classified information could be discussed as part of her testimony.

                      None of y'all were demanding the public release of Mueller's interviews. Apply the same constraint here.

                      --Sam
                      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                        Initial depositions, whether in a grand jury investigation or an impeachment investigation, are not typically public hearings. In Yovanovitch's case, the hearing was done in the House SCIF, indicating that classified information could be discussed as part of her testimony.

                        None of y'all were demanding the public release of Mueller's interviews. Apply the same constraint here.

                        --Sam
                        1. Grand jury testimony isn’t publicly released in an investigation.
                        2. An investigation, by a special counsel, doesn’t follow the same rules as a house impeachment investigation does.

                        Keep trying to excuse away whatever the democrats say or do. Reality: democrats are determined to get rid of Trump, no matter what.
                        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                          I heard you’re a serial killer from an second hand source that claims he heard it from a member of your family. Hope you enjoy your prison sentence because don’t worry, you can’t face your accuser because they fear you’ll kill them and their families. See you in 30 years to never.
                          That is not how it works. Not sure if you know it though. Your identity (if it met the whistle-blower standard) would be withheld, but nothing would happen to me (or sam) unless what you 'heard' could be supported with real evidence. whistle blower statutes don't keep a person from facing their accuser if they are charged with a crime. It just alerts the authorities to a potential problem. If they where not protected then far fewer people would be willing to take the risk of letting the authorities know something is amiss.

                          Jim
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                            Initial depositions, whether in a grand jury investigation or an impeachment investigation, are not typically public hearings. In Yovanovitch's case, the hearing was done in the House SCIF, indicating that classified information could be discussed as part of her testimony.

                            None of y'all were demanding the public release of Mueller's interviews. Apply the same constraint here.

                            --Sam
                            Nonsense, why haven't they released Volker's testimony with any necessary redactions?
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                              1. Grand jury testimony isn’t publicly released in an investigation.
                              2. An investigation, by a special counsel, doesn’t follow the same rules as a house impeachment investigation does.

                              Keep trying to excuse away whatever the democrats say or do. Reality: democrats are determined to get rid of Trump, no matter what.
                              Impeachment proceedings are, in fact, analogous to grand jury investigations and initial depositions are not public for many of the same reasons: you want witnesses to be able to talk, you want interviewers to be free of the need for public performance, you want to avoid witnesses trying to corroborate stories.

                              If you give this stuff a bit of thought, all that is evident.

                              --Sam
                              "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                Nonsense, why haven't they released Volker's testimony with any necessary redactions?
                                Because that's not something that often happens and there's value in closed-door sessions, as noted above.

                                Notice that no Republican congressmen are saying that Volker presented exonerating evidence during his interview that Democrats are concealing. Not even Matt Gaetz or Jim Jordan, as far as I've seen.

                                Like the Mueller report, you're just gonna have to wait awhile to find out some things.

                                --Sam
                                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                                Comment

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