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Trump Administration Whistleblower Cover-Up

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  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Nearly all conversations Trump has with foreign leaders have been moved due to how they were being regularly leaked during the early part of his Administration.
    The administration doesn't get to use the codeword server for anything it wants just because it wants to avoid staff problems. That's an abuse of the system and it degrades the system's security; not least because the system, like Clinton's private server, is now ripe to be considered evidence in a lawsuit or criminal proceeding. People who otherwise shouldn't have access will now have to sift through at least parts of the server.

    It's also arguably obstruction of justice, if the Trump admin hid documents on the codeword server that were required to be turned over to the Mueller investigation's team.

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
      Could you please comment in light of this article?

      Specifically,


      "The internal properties of the newly revised “Disclosure of Urgent Concern” form, which the intelligence community inspector general (ICIG) requires to be submitted under the Intelligence Community Whistleblower Protection Act (ICWPA), show that the document was uploaded on September 24, 2019, at 4:25 p.m., just days before the anti-Trump complaint was declassified and released to the public. The markings on the document state that it was revised in August 2019, but no specific date of revision is disclosed.

      ...

      A previous version of the whistleblower complaint document, which the ICIG and DNI until recently provided to potential whistleblowers, declared that any complaint must contain only first-hand knowledge of alleged wrongdoing and that complaints that provide only hearsay, rumor, or gossip would be rejected.

      “The [Intelligence Community Inspector General] cannot transmit information via the ICPWA based on an employee’s second-hand knowledge of wrongdoing,” the previous form stated under the bolded heading “FIRST-HAND INFORMATION REQUIRED.” “This includes information received from another person, such as when an employee informs you that he/she witnessed some type of wrongdoing.”

      “If you think that wrongdoing took place, but can provide nothing more than second-hand or unsubstantiated assertions, [the Intelligence Community Inspector General] will not be able to process the complaint or information for submission as an ICWPA,” the form concluded.

      Markings on the previous version of the Disclosure of Urgent Concern form show that it was formally approved on May 24, 2018."

      Yes, it's disinformation.

      The statute determines the qualifications for whistleblowing and the statute doesn't require "firsthand knowledge". Moreover, as I linked earlier, the "old" ICIG form included both "direct" and "indirect" knowledge of an abuse as legitimate basis for complaints. I linked earlier to George Conway (who adds in Ken White), who describes why, even if the complaint relied wholly on hearsay (it doesn't) and even if the complaint's content wasn't found credible by the ICIG during the course of his review, hearsay evidence can still sufficient to begin an investigation into administrative wrongdoing, since there are various exemptions to hearsay rules.

      The folks at The Federalist know this. They're just hoping other folks don't ... or are, at least, willing to overlook. See how many people here are calling for an investigation into Biden on even -less- than hearsay suddenly nitpicking at whether the whistleblower had "firsthand" knowledge of an abuse.

      --Sam
      "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sam View Post
        The administration doesn't get to use the codeword server for anything it wants just because it wants to avoid staff problems.
        Says who?
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sam View Post
          Yes, it's disinformation.

          The statute determines the qualifications for whistleblowing and the statute doesn't require "firsthand knowledge". Moreover, as I linked earlier, the "old" ICIG form included both "direct" and "indirect" knowledge of an abuse as legitimate basis for complaints. I linked earlier to George Conway (who adds in Ken White), who describes why, even if the complaint relied wholly on hearsay (it doesn't) and even if the complaint's content wasn't found credible by the ICIG during the course of his review, hearsay evidence can still sufficient to begin an investigation into administrative wrongdoing, since there are various exemptions to hearsay rules.

          The folks at The Federalist know this. They're just hoping other folks don't ... or are, at least, willing to overlook. See how many people here are calling for an investigation into Biden on even -less- than hearsay suddenly nitpicking at whether the whistleblower had "firsthand" knowledge of an abuse.

          --Sam
          You guys are trying to act like nothing was changed between the old and new rules, which begs the question: why was the change made at all if it supposedly didn't actually change anything? And why did the "whistleblower" wait until after the change to come forward? Does "indirect evidence" include office rumors and idle gossip? The word "evidence" suggests something rather stronger, which is why the rules had to be weakened to include "heard from others".
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            You guys are trying to act like nothing was changed between the old and new rules, which begs the question: why was the change made at all if it supposedly didn't actually change anything? And why did the "whistleblower" wait until after the change to come forward? Does "indirect evidence" include office rumors and idle gossip? The word "evidence" suggests something rather stronger, which is why the rules had to be weakened to include "heard from others".
            Clarification. It is not uncommon to change a form if it becomes clear the same question is asked over and over again by the people using the form.

            The kind if "heard from others" in the report is not 'gossip' or 'office rumors', but very serious compromises of the power and responsibility of the office of the President of the USA.

            Jim
            He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

            "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              The kind if "heard from others" in the report is not 'gossip' or 'office rumors'...
              Given the number of things the "whistleblower" exaggerated or just got flat out wrong, I'm not sure what else we could reasonably conclude. It's why firsthand knowledge should be, and until recently was a requirement for this sort of thing.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Given the number of things the "whistleblower" exaggerated or just got flat out wrong, I'm not sure what else we could reasonably conclude. It's why firsthand knowledge should be, and until recently was a requirement for this sort of thing.
                More importantly, given the number of things that whistleblower got right, nearly everything, it's telling that you guys are arguing over process rather than the facts revealed.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Given the number of things the "whistleblower" exaggerated or just got flat out wrong, I'm not sure what else we could reasonably conclude. It's why firsthand knowledge should be, and until recently was a requirement for this sort of thing.
                  Swatting at gnats and swallowing camels. As far as I've seen so far, nothing of substance has been wrong. And given the fact this is the compiled testimony of several eyewitnesses, if everything were exactly precisely correct, that would itself be suspicious. Eyewitnesses rarely agree perfectly on the details.

                  The simple facts are: trump held back funds. Trump clearly tied the investigation of Biden and bidens son to access to those funds. This is a clear abuse of power and violation of the law. Not to mention the fact he's holding over the barrel the leader of a country formerly tied to the Soviet Block that wants to embrace western democracy, the US, and NATO

                  The fact you are defending Trump in this once again shows that you will follow him and support him no matter how low he goes, no matter what crime he commits.

                  Jim
                  He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                  "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Says who?
                    I bet this is all a head fake because they know IG report on FISA abuses is coming out...

                    This was reported Sept.13

                    The Justice Department’s inspector general told lawmakers Friday his team is nearly finished with its long-awaited review of alleged surveillance abuses by the DOJ and FBI during the Russia investigation, saying they have submitted a draft to Attorney General Bill Barr and are “finalizing” the report ahead of its public release.

                    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/doj...torney-general
                    Last edited by seer; 09-29-2019, 07:23 PM.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      As far as I've seen so far, nothing of substance has been wrong.
                      You've proven that you can't see much beyond your hatred strong dislike for President Trump.

                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      The simple facts are: trump held back funds. Trump clearly tied the investigation of Biden and bidens son to access to those funds. This is a clear abuse of power and violation of the law. Not to mention the fact he's holding over the barrel the leader of a country formerly tied to the Soviet Block that wants to embrace western democracy, the US, and NATO
                      The simple facts are: nobody in the Ukrainian government was aware of our government's internal decision to temporarily withhold funds, Trump never mentioned it or even alluded to it during the phonecall, and both President Zelensky and Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko are on the record saying they did not feel pressured, so...

                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        You've proven that you can't see much beyond your hatred strong dislike for President Trump.


                        The simple facts are: nobody in the Ukrainian government was aware of our government's internal decision to temporarily withhold funds, Trump never mentioned it or even alluded to it during the phonecall, and both President Zelensky and Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko are on the record saying they did not feel pressured, so...

                        Your can drop the shrug.

                        Zekenski's comment can be attributed to acute awareness of the fact Trump is still in control.

                        But consider:

                        Ukrainian officials earlier this month expressed concern to U.S. senators that the aid had been held up as a penalty for resisting that pressure. “They worried the aid that was being cut off to Ukraine by the president was a consequence for their unwillingness at the time to investigate the Bidens,” said Sen. Chris Murphy (D., Conn.), who earlier this month met in Ukraine with Mr. Zelensky and other officials.

                        https://www.wsj.com/articles/preside...ce-11569254230

                        Jim
                        He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                        "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          Zekenski's comment can be attributed to acute awareness of the fact Trump is still in control.
                          Right. This is one of those "truth over facts" moments, isn't it?

                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          But consider:

                          Ukrainian officials earlier this month expressed concern to U.S. senators that the aid had been held up as a penalty for resisting that pressure. “They worried the aid that was being cut off to Ukraine by the president was a consequence for their unwillingness at the time to investigate the Bidens,” said Sen. Chris Murphy (D., Conn.), who earlier this month met in Ukraine with Mr. Zelensky and other officials.

                          https://www.wsj.com/articles/preside...ce-11569254230

                          Jim
                          But consider:

                          That's coming from a biased secondhand source (what is it with you guys trusting secondhand sources anyway?). The very next sentence in the article reads, "The Ukrainian Embassy in Washington didn’t respond to a request for comment on Mr. Murphy’s remarks." In other words, Murphy's claims are unsubstantiated. Meanwhile, President Zelensky and Foreign Minister Prystaiko, are both on record saying they felt not pressure from the Trump administration to investigate Biden's corruption, so...

                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Right. This is one of those "truth over facts" moments, isn't it?


                            But consider:

                            That's coming from a biased secondhand source (what is it with you guys trusting secondhand sources anyway?). The very next sentence in the article reads, "The Ukrainian Embassy in Washington didn’t respond to a request for comment on Mr. Murphy’s remarks." In other words, Murphy's claims are unsubstantiated. Meanwhile, President Zelensky and Foreign Minister Prystaiko, are both on record saying they felt not pressure from the Trump administration to investigate Biden's corruption, so...

                            They are lying so as to not upset Mr Mob Boss.


                            Jim
                            He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                            "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              You've proven that you can't see much beyond your hatred strong dislike for President Trump.


                              The simple facts are: nobody in the Ukrainian government was aware of our government's internal decision to temporarily withhold funds, Trump never mentioned it or even alluded to it during the phonecall, and both President Zelensky and Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko are on the record saying they did not feel pressured, so...

                              What difference does that make? You're grasping for straw, MM. Whether Zelensky knew or not, though I'm sure he did, had nothing to do with the conversation. Zelensky asked for the military aid, and Trump said, but I need a favor from you though. The extortion charge doesn't depend on whether Zelensky knew the finacial aid was already appropriated for Ukraine and that Trump was holding it up, or not. It's extortion in either case. The blocking of those funds was also a breach of our national security and the national security of our ally, Ukraine, in the face of their ongoing war with Trumps buddy, V Putin and Russia.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                Your can drop the shrug.

                                Zekenski's comment can be attributed to acute awareness of the fact Trump is still in control.

                                But consider:

                                Ukrainian officials earlier this month expressed concern to U.S. senators that the aid had been held up as a penalty for resisting that pressure. “They worried the aid that was being cut off to Ukraine by the president was a consequence for their unwillingness at the time to investigate the Bidens,” said Sen. Chris Murphy (D., Conn.), who earlier this month met in Ukraine with Mr. Zelensky and other officials.

                                https://www.wsj.com/articles/preside...ce-11569254230

                                Jim
                                We should always prefer conspiracy theories rather than accepting that he's simply telling the truth.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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