Originally posted by oxmixmudd
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Gun Control - moved from E-cig thread
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post"Guns are dangerous weapons" -- that's kind of the point Jim. They are supposed to be dangerous weapons. That is why people have them for self-defense. If I am defending my life or my family I want as dangerous of a weapon as I can get my hands on. I want it to be as unfair to the guys attacking us as possible. I want a fast shooting, high capacity weapon that can kill them before they can kill me or my family or friends. And I have the RIGHT to have those weapons and to defend myself. And that right is not given to me by the constitution. It is an inalienable right. The 2nd amendment doesn't give us the right to own and bear arms. It just says the government can't infringe on my right to do so.
And taking them out of my hands isn't going to take them out of the criminal's hands. They will still find a way to get them.
Jim
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI don't believe you are taking into account all of what I said, but since you don't reference the post you are referring to, I have no objective means of evaluating that. I can tell you that your characterization of gun control as 'punishment' is wrong. A gun is a dangerous weapon, and high capacity semi-automatics a seriously dangerous weapon, and so there is a responsibility to the public to do what can be done to keep such weapons out of the hands of those that would use them to kill innocent people. Gun control laws are part of that process. Having them, complying with them, is just the civic duty of the gun owner.
Jim
And taking them out of my hands isn't going to take them out of the criminal's hands. They will still find a way to get them.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostWe have no problem enforcing the licensing and taxing of automobiles. They are in public view of course, which does make it easier. The hardest to enforce would be private sales by individuals. But I don't see it being that hard. If guns are licensed, then there is a record of ownership. If that gun ends up in the hands of another person committing a crime, you'd better have a document showing you had a background check done, or you'd better have reported it stolen. And when you report a gun stolen, you'd better be able to show you took reasonable precautions against it being stolen.
We don't have to take away guns. We just have to have and enforce reasonable laws governing their ownership. When they are used in a crime, any person that bent the rules, cut corners, refused to comply with those laws, needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law in a way that allows them to be held accountable for the deaths that occurred.
I just can't imagine anyone responsible enough to own a gun that would risk his life and career and family by trying to bend such laws. Just the act of eschewing them would indicate the person probably should not be allowed to own guns in the first place. Our rights can be forfeited if we commit a crime. Just make irresponsible gun ownership a crime and there should be no 2nd amendment conflict.Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 09-22-2019, 08:35 AM.
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostIt’s still illegal to sell to known felons and how do you plan on enforcing this law Jim?
I understand that you want to pass unenforceable laws that run foul of the constitution.
We don't have to take away guns. We just have to have and enforce reasonable laws governing their ownership. When they are used in a crime, any person that bent the rules, cut corners, refused to comply with those laws, needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law in a way that allows them to be held accountable for the deaths that occurred.
I just can't imagine anyone responsible enough to own a gun that would risk his life and career and family by trying to bend such laws. Just the act of eschewing them would indicate the person probably should not be allowed to own guns in the first place. Our rights can be forfeited if we commit a crime. Just make irresponsible gun ownership a crime and there should be no 2nd amendment conflict.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 09-21-2019, 09:28 AM.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostWhat I've said, in a nutshell, is - enforce what we have AND close the loopholes (e.g. require background checks for private sales).
It is important to recognize that when a person proposes an idea that includes more than one element, or more than one choice, that in order to process that idea, or respond intelligently to it, one must take into account the entirety of what was said.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postso your answer to me was not in fact correctl. Your answer to my post was that we need background checks and such. Yet that isn't really what you want is it? Because we already have that. You want to ban AR15s or make them so hard to qualify to own that the average citizen can't get one. Which means my initial post was correct. You want to punish the law-abiding owners to try to stop a handful of criminals.
Jim
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View PostWe don't know if they are sufficient or not they have not been really tried. Lack of enforcement means it wasn't tried. ENFORCE WHAT IS IN PLACE then you can say it was tried until then stop saying it has been tried.
It is important to recognize that when a person proposes an idea that includes more than one element, or more than one choice, that in order to process that idea, or respond intelligently to it, one must take into account the entirety of what was said.
Jim
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI'm not claiming they don't. I'm claiming they are insufficient.
Jim
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post... The consistent rise in mass shootings in the last few decades
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Jim
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post... The consistent rise in mass shootings in the last few decades
[ATTACH=CONFIG]39799[/ATTACH]
Jim
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostAnd this opinion is based on....
shootings in the us.png
Jim
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI'm not claiming they don't. I'm claiming they are insufficient.
Jim
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI'm not claiming they don't. I'm claiming they are insufficient.
Jim
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