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Gun Control - moved from E-cig thread

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  • Gun Control - moved from E-cig thread

    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    Unless you live in a vacuum you have heard about several vaping deaths and hundreds of people (mostly kids) with lung problems from vaping. Trump has said he is thinking about banning flavored vaping liquids to discourage teens from vaping.


    Trump administration readies ban on flavored e-cigarettes amid outbreak of vaping-related deaths

    The Trump administration is preparing to ban flavored e-cigarettes as federal health officials call for restrictions to combat an outbreak of a mysterious lung disease that has sickened hundreds and killed at least six people, U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar told reporters Wednesday.

    The Food and Drug Administration is currently finalizing its guidance to remove all non-tobacco flavors of e-cigarettes, including mint and menthol, from the market within 30 days. Companies might be able to reintroduce their flavors at a later date, so long as they submit a formal application and receive approval from the FDA.

    Vaping companies such as Juul have been criticized for hooking children on e-cigarettes with flavors such as mango and creme. The surge in underage vaping, which U.S. health officials have labeled as an “epidemic,” is one of the reasons why they plan to ban them — at least until the FDA can thoroughly review their safety, Azar said after meeting with President Donald Trump at the White House on the issue.

    “The Trump Administration is making it clear that we intend to clear the market of flavored e-cigarettes to reverse the deeply concerning epidemic of youth e-cigarette use that is impacting children, families, schools and communities,” Azar said in a statement. “We will not stand idly by as these products become an on-ramp to combustible cigarettes or nicotine addiction for a generation of youth.”

    It could take the FDA several weeks to develop the guidelines, Azar told reporters outside the White House with acting FDA Commissioner Ned Sharpless.

    Shares of Altria, which owns a 35% stake in e-cigarette company Juul, fell by less than 1%, while competitors PMI Group, Japan Tobacco, British American Tobacco and Imperial Brands all rose by between 1% and 3% in midday trading.

    A Juul spokesman told CNBC on Wednesday, “We strongly agree with the need for aggressive category-wide action on flavored products. We will fully comply with the final FDA policy when effective.”

    Azar said they want to keep tobacco-flavored e-cigarettes on the market for adults who may be using them to quit smoking. The FDA has embraced e-cigarettes as a less harmful way for smokers to satisfy their nicotine addiction than smoking cigarettes. Skyrocketing numbers of minors started using the products, forcing the FDA to reverse course.

    “If we find that children start surging into tobacco-flavored e-cigarettes or if we find marketing practices that target children and try to attract them into tobacco-flavored e-cigarettes, we will engage in enforcement actions there also,” he told reporters.

    The effort to ban flavored e-cigarettes has started picking up momentum. Michigan, San Francisco, and Boulder, Colorado, have banned flavored e-cigarettes. Michael Bloomberg, the billionaire and former New York mayor, pledged $160 million to help enact similar restrictions around the country.

    The FDA was supposed to start reviewing e-cigarettes, a relatively new market, last summer until former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb pushed back the review until 2022. The proposal outlined Wednesday essentially moves the FDA’s timeline to review flavors up to this year. All companies must submit applications in May 2020 per a federal court judge’s ruling issued in July.

    Preliminary data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s annual survey of teens showed more than a quarter of high school students used e-cigarettes within the past 30 days, with the “overwhelming majority” saying they vaped fruit and menthol or mint flavors, HHS said in a press release.

    The FDA is in the process of banning menthol cigarettes.

    Regulators have blamed the teen vaping “epidemic” on one e-cigarette manufacturer in particular, Juul. The San Francisco-based company makes a sleek device and flavors including mango, creme and fruit. Its cartridges pack a powerful punch, with one pod delivering as much nicotine as a pack of cigarettes. Former White House spokesman Josh Raffel joined Juul’s communications team last year.

    Gottlieb labeled teen vaping an “epidemic” almost exactly a year ago. Under Gottlieb, the FDA moved to limit sales of fruity flavors to age-restricted stores, such as vape shops. Lawmakers and public health groups have urged the agency to do more, with Minority Whip Dick Durbin last week telling Sharpless to take “decisive action” or else resign.

    “Finally, the FDA is doing its job,” Durbin said in a statement Wednesday.

    American Vaping Association President Gregory Conley criticized the planned ban, saying in a statement it would “remove life-changing options from the market.”

    Wednesday’s announcement comes as members of Congress increasingly pressure the administration to rein in the e-cigarette industry.

    The CDC is investigating more than 450 cases of lung disease officials suspect were caused by vaping.

    Some officials have honed in on a vitamin E oil that’s been added to some THC vaping products as a possible cause. Regardless, the outbreak has fueled calls to restrict the e-cigarette industry amid what regulators are calling an “epidemic” of teen vaping.

    Trump called on the FDA to get to the bottom of the outbreak.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/11/trum...g-disease.html


    So, is this a good thing or is it overreaching government nannying, like when NY wanted to ban sugary drinks (colas) to for the people's own good?
    Your guns will be next!

  • #2
    Gun Crontrol - moved from E-cig thread

    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    Your guns will be next!
    Beto has just handed Trump one heck of a campaign issue - and probably a blue state or two.


    I'm pro-gun control - the Dems have set it back 20 years!!!
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

    Quill Sword

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
      Beto has just handed Trump one heck of a campaign issue - and probably a blue state or two.


      I'm pro-gun control - the Dems have set it back 20 years!!!
      I wish someone would ask "Beto" which military uses AR-15s.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #4
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        I wish someone would ask "Beto" which military uses AR-15s.
        Dunno - not clear on why this matters?

        And no, I don't agree with him - I just don't get this.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

        Quill Sword

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          Beto has just handed Trump one heck of a campaign issue - and probably a blue state or two.


          I'm pro-gun control - the Dems have set it back 20 years!!!
          And so are the great majority of Americans,and they're against the sale of military style weapons as well. It's about time someone in the democratic party understands that and takes a moral stand. How can you be pro gun control and be against people owning weapons of mass destruction? Do you think people should have access to nuclear weapons, they are arms as well, or is that going to far?
          Last edited by JimL; 09-15-2019, 10:04 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JimL View Post
            And so are the great majority of Americans,and they're against the sale of military style weapons as well. It's about time someone in the democratic party understands that and takes a moral stand. How can you be pro gun control and be against people owning weapons of mass destruction? Do you think people should have access to nuclear weapons, they are arms as well, or is that going to far?
            Jim, I respect standing on principle - but I admire effectively standing on principle. I don't respect abject stupidity in a presidential candidate.

            What is going to happen is that gun proponents are going to be extremely reactive to any gun legislation. They will become active and go into overdrive to defeat things we might otherwise have agreed on. But now they know there really are abolitionists in the Democrat party - confirming their 'paranoia' as fact.

            And yes, this will probably help the Republicans in 2020. That's a silver lining to me, but it will probably mean we leave open the few loopholes we could have closed.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Quill Sword

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JimL View Post
              And so are the great majority of Americans,and they're against the sale of military style weapons as well. It's about time someone in the democratic party understands that and takes a moral stand. How can you be pro gun control and be against people owning weapons of mass destruction? Do you think people should have access to nuclear weapons, they are arms as well, or is that going to far?
              An AR-15 is no different than the loads of wood/plastic/composite rifles sold today. They are not in the same league as a nuke, stop fear mongering.
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                Jim, I respect standing on principle - but I admire effectively standing on principle. I don't respect abject stupidity in a presidential candidate.

                What is going to happen is that gun proponents are going to be extremely reactive to any gun legislation. They will become active and go into overdrive to defeat things we might otherwise have agreed on. But now they know there really are abolitionists in the Democrat party - confirming their 'paranoia' as fact.

                And yes, this will probably help the Republicans in 2020. That's a silver lining to me, but it will probably mean we leave open the few loopholes we could have closed.
                And why should anyone care what the gun proponents who support the sale and ownership of military style weapons of mass destruction think when the great majority of Americans, which includes many gun proponents, oppose them? How is that supposed to help Republicans in 2020? It's certainly not going to help Trump if he decides to go that route, though he probably will because the supporters of the sale and ownership of these weapons are a large portion of his wacky base.
                Last edited by JimL; 09-15-2019, 05:16 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                  An AR-15 is no different than the loads of wood/plastic/composite rifles sold today. They are not in the same league as a nuke, stop fear mongering.
                  They can kill a lot more people a lot faster than rifles meant for sport, lilpix. I didn't suggest they were the same as nukes, I asked where do you draw the line, and upon what grounds do you do so? How many people have to be killed, how many school children, babies, you know, the ones that live independently, outside of the womb, need a poor mentally ill person or deranged psychopath be able to kill with a weapon before you draw that line?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    They can kill a lot more people a lot faster than rifles meant for sport, lilpix. I didn't suggest they were the same as nukes, I asked where do you draw the line, and upon what grounds do you do so? How many people have to be killed, how many school children, babies, you know, the ones that live independently, outside of the womb, need a poor mentally ill person or deranged psychopath be able to kill with a weapon before you draw that line?
                    No they can’t. This is your ignorance speaking. The features of the AR-15 (semi auto, accurate, magazine fed) are used in modern sporting rifles and have been for decades. You have no clue what you’re talking about and your dad attempts at emotionalism, without facts, shows you have no clue. Murders are lower today than they were 30 years ago and odds of being involved in a mass shooting remains a tiny statical reality.
                    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      And why should anyone care what the gun proponents who support the sale and ownership of military style weapons of mass destruction think when the great majority of Americans, which includes many gun proponents, oppose them? How is that supposed to help Republicans in 2020? It's certainly not going to help Trump if he decides to go that route, though he probably will because the supporters of the sale and ownership of these weapons are a large portion of his wacky base.
                      Because they outnumber the 'Constitution be darned, steal their stuff' lunatics - and gun control advocates. Riling them up only guarantees they will win.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                      My Personal Blog

                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                      Quill Sword

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                        No they can’t. This is your ignorance speaking. The features of the AR-15 (semi auto, accurate, magazine fed) are used in modern sporting rifles and have been for decades. You have no clue what you’re talking about and your dad attempts at emotionalism, without facts, shows you have no clue. Murders are lower today than they were 30 years ago and odds of being involved in a mass shooting remains a tiny statical reality.
                        Lil, I grant I don't know a lot, but I'm pretty sure a semi-auto anything is more of a force multiplier than a .22 deer rifle. Also, 'tiny statistical reality' isn't a good defense for letting crazies have semi-automatic weapons.

                        Incidently, I'm not in favor of the ban - these are just preaching to the choir arguments (well, and you missed Jim's point on the first one).
                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Quill Sword

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm not a fan of the general tactic of requiring anybody proposing any solutions in the gun violence debate to have an encyclopedic knowledge of guns. It's gatekeeping, pure and simple. I'm pro-life even though I couldn't describe how abortions occur in any sort of detail and don't see a problem with that.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            I'm not a fan of the general tactic of requiring anybody proposing any solutions in the gun violence debate to have an encyclopedic knowledge of guns. It's gatekeeping, pure and simple. I'm pro-life even though I couldn't describe how abortions occur in any sort of detail and don't see a problem with that.
                            I don't think this is a very valid analogy. In the abortion debate, the methodology of abortions is not particularly important, because those opposed to it are opposed to it--period. If the abortion debate were centered around the methods of abortion, with groups arguing certain methods are wrong but others are okay, the analogy might hold, but that is hardly the case for abortion (except, perhaps, for partial birth abortions).

                            In the gun debate, knowledge about guns is kind of important to know because it gives you the knowledge as to how dangerous different guns are so you can have your suggestions for gun restrictions make sense and be consistent. I've seen a good number of people comment that the proposals for gun control seem to frequently be not based on how dangerous guns are but on how scary they happen to look, for example. Knowledge about gun specifics would therefore avoid that problem.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              Because they outnumber the 'Constitution be darned, steal their stuff' lunatics - and gun control advocates. Riling them up only guarantees they will win.
                              Actually you are wrong, the great majority of Americans including republicans gun enthusiats are in favor of gun control including the banning of military style weapons that were meant for war. It's true that there is a large contingent of Trumpsters and the NRA lobbyist who care more about owning and profiteering from such weapons than they do about the slaughter of innocent people, including children, but the great majority of people, again, including gun owners, want those weapons of mass destruction off the market and off the streets.

                              Comment

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