Gun Control - moved from E-cig thread

[lilpixieofterror]

That depends a great deal on if I'm in the room with an idiot with an AR-15.

But I prefer to think of it this way Sparko. Sometime in the next 3 months another group of people IS going to die because someone with a semi-automatic something went nuts. So on their behalf, I'd like to try to do something to reduce the number of people facing that particular kind of death this year, or next. Or, some gang bangers are going to decide to get revenge on someone and take out some little kid standing nearby. Trying to do something about it is better, I believe, than sitting around doing nothing, and it is far better that worrying about whether or not the laws that help stop that sort of thing will keep me from getting the latest and greatest means of mowing down people quickly and cheaply so I can play with it at the range.

Jim

And in that same timeframe, hundreds of millions will not. You’re fear is as irrational as fearing the ocean because of shark attacks.

[lilpixieofterror]

On the other hand, if we just sit around on our hands doing nothing like you seem to prefer, if the trend continues, mass shootings will continue to rise and we will have done nothing.


Jim

That’s a great strawman you built there because what I have actually said is we to start by enforcing laws that already exist and taking your own safety seriously. What I have pointed is you fear something there is little reason to fear. I visit stores several times a week, no mass shooter yet. Gone and seen several movies, no mass shooting there either. This list goes on and on, point? You apparently live in fear of an event happening that is so rare that really isn’t something to have a fear of. You’re far more likely to choke eating your dinner tonight than being involved in a mass shooting event.

[Sparko]

That depends a great deal on if I'm in the room with an idiot with an AR-15.

But I prefer to think of it this way Sparko. Sometime in the next 3 months another group of people IS going to die because someone with a semi-automatic something went nuts. So on their behalf, I'd like to try to do something to reduce the number of people facing that particular kind of death this year, or next. Or, some gang bangers are going to decide to get revenge on someone and take out some little kid standing nearby. Trying to do something about it is better, I believe, than sitting around doing nothing, and it is far better that worrying about whether or not the laws that help stop that sort of thing will keep me from getting the latest and greatest means of mowing down people quickly and cheaply so I can play with it at the range.

Jim

Wanting to do something about it is just human nature, Jim. Doing something useless doesn't help. Like taking away guns from law abiding citizens who don't shoot up schools. Punishing the innocent doesn't stop the criminals. The problem is a human heart problem, like any sin. You don't stop sin by punishing people who aren't sinning do you? You stop sin by changing the hearts of the people who are sinning. And only God and the Gospel can do that.

[oxmixmudd]

You have a much better chance of dying from heart disease, cancer or a car accident than being killed by a gun.

That depends a great deal on if I'm in the room with an idiot with an AR-15.

But I prefer to think of it this way Sparko. Sometime in the next 3 months another group of people IS going to die because someone with a semi-automatic something went nuts. So on their behalf, I'd like to try to do something to reduce the number of people facing that particular kind of death this year, or next. Or, some gang bangers are going to decide to get revenge on someone and take out some little kid standing nearby. Trying to do something about it is better, I believe, than sitting around doing nothing, and it is far better that worrying about whether or not the laws that help stop that sort of thing will keep me from getting the latest and greatest means of mowing down people quickly and cheaply so I can play with it at the range.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

Even The Huffington Post has said that much. You say, “But mass shootings are on the rise, we need to act!” Sure we do, but your proposed laws won’t help and simply will create an illusion of safety. You’re not going to pass laws until your safe, the first step is to take responsibility for your own safety and not to give into blind panic.

On the other hand, if we just sit around on our hands doing nothing like you seem to prefer, if the trend continues, mass shootings will continue to rise and we will have done nothing.


Jim

[Sparko]

Let's suppose that is real and not just some sort of pro gun lobby spin, it doesn't mean we do not work to reduce the dangers that exist. The number and intensity of random mass shootings of innocent people in the USA is on the rise and has been for a while, and we need to work to turn that around.

Jim

You have a much better chance of dying from heart disease, cancer or a car accident than being killed by a gun.

[Sparko]

if 'improve' means capable of killing more people faster - not for civilian use. No need and it creates an unnecessary danger to the public.

Jim

I am just damn glad you are not the arbiter of the constitution or gun regulations, Jim. We would be stuck with muskets if you were in charge. Or paintball guns.

[lilpixieofterror]

Let's suppose that is real and not just some sort of pro gun lobby spin, it doesn't mean we do not work to reduce the dangers that exist. The number and intensity of random mass shootings of innocent people in the USA is on the rise and has been for a while, and we need to work to turn that around.

Jim

Even The Huffington Post has said that much. You say, “But mass shootings are on the rise, we need to act!” Sure we do, but your proposed laws won’t help and simply will create an illusion of safety. You’re not going to pass laws until your safe, the first step is to take responsibility for your own safety and not to give into blind panic.

[oxmixmudd]

Less chance of dying from violence than any other time in history.

Let's suppose that is real and not just some sort of pro gun lobby spin, it doesn't mean we do not work to reduce the dangers that exist. The number and intensity of random mass shootings of innocent people in the USA is on the rise and has been for a while, and we need to work to turn that around.

Jim

[rogue06]

Safest time in history?

Jim

Less chance of dying from violence than any other time in history.

[oxmixmudd]

And yet, we live in the safest time, in history. Despite the existence of such weapons. It’s almost as if you’re belief is based in emotion and not logic.

Safest time in history?

Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

if 'improve' means capable of killing more people faster - not for civilian use. No need and it creates an unnecessary danger to the public.

Jim

And yet, we live in the safest time, in history. Despite the existence of such weapons. It’s almost as if you’re belief is based in emotion and not logic.

[oxmixmudd]

Basically firearm technology is not allowed to improve or innovate at all. We need to go back to late 19th century technology, revolvers and rifles that have to be cocked for every shot.

if 'improve' means capable of killing more people faster - not for civilian use. No need and it creates an unnecessary danger to the public.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

So an AR-15 is not like other semi-automatic rifles because it is an AR-15. Circular logic at its best.

And where did I EVER say anything like that? Did you read my reply, or infer something from outer space?

And you didn't do much better with the second part essentially opening it up to describe the vast majority of semi-automatic rifles as being AR-15 like while you just said the AR-15 is distinctive.

Something is blocking your comprehension rogue. I'll try one more time.

I was using the term "Like an AR15" to describe a class of guns that need regulation. You asked me to define the difference between "an AR-15" and "like an AR-15". I thought so you could clarify what I meant when I said "like and AR-15" as a class of guns that need to be regulated. Were you looking for something else? I gave you exactly what I meant by saying "like an AR-15".

Are you referring to sometime when I just said AR-15 vs 'like an AR-15'. I have always ONLY meant like an AR-15. If I was just talking about an AR-15 is was a simplification for convenience. I have never been talking about the AR-15 as a single focus. The AR-15 is one of the most popular rifles of that type, and it has been used a good bit in these shootings. But I'm always talking about in the context of it being a symbol of a class of rifle.

What are you thinking odd about that? It is very simple. The AR-15, and rifles like it, have certain characteristics. I listed them. There are (or used to be anyway) lots of rifles that are NOT like an ar-15. A bolt action 30.06 single shot used for hunting deer would be one. A pump action 22. A pump action shot gun. I don't see any real need to regulate those in the same way I see there being a need to regulate rifles 'LIKE' an AR-15.

So what IS your actual beef with what I've said rogue in terms of the use of the term AR-15?


Jim

[seer]

It says they are suspending all rifle production for the civilian market.

Yes they are focusing on the Military contracts.