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  • #31
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    It does get old listening to folks describing old-fashioned semi-automatic firearms as being "military style" and even confusing them for full automatic weapons (something I've seen done literally dozens of times by reporters on TV).
    It also gets old when people get stuck on details and miss the point...

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
      I grew up with morons that brought back stubby little dead deer with their trusty .22's - and I've been shot at at least twice (was never 100% sure about the third one) by the same morons - there's a reason I'm pro-'morons shouldn't have guns, including BB guns'. But I am willing to acknowledge that law abiding non-morons might have a legitimate point.

      Word to the wise, jumping on people who aren't your enemy is a good way to lose potential allies.

      Back on topic: But that doesn't address the point you missed - and railing about caliber doesn't impress me when I acknowledged my short coming and you decide to pull this anyway.

      FYI: that statistical argument only works from necessity - very few gun owners can make that claim. You don't have a right to unnecessarily endanger others - which is why arguing from statistics that way won't work.


      No, this time you're deliberately avoiding the actual point.
      I’m not avoiding anything Teal because it is actually illegal to shot a deer with a .22, in most states and while I agree with the ‘let’ keep idiots from guns’ or ‘psychopaths from guns’ ideals such things run against the idea of ‘guilty till proven innocent’. It is not illegal to be an idiot, a psychopath, nor mentally ill and psychology isn’t an exact science in predicting violent behavior. I know several mass shooters have been under psychiatric care, one even having his guns taken and returned a few days before he committed his rampage. The fact remains though that:

      1. The cat is out of the bag. There’s simply too many rifles out there, in too many hands, with too strong of a pro gun culture, to ever gather them all up.
      2. Handguns are far more dangerous than rifles, of all types. Far more deaths result in gang wars where gang A shoots up gang B than in mass shootings. Yet we want to look at the rifles while it’s the hand guns that cause the most deaths.
      3. Understand some of the technical details is an important part of the gun control debate because if you want to control something, you need to know it technical details, how it’s used, etc. The AR style is not a weapon of war and is mainly used to describe a cosmetic style that wasn’t even designed for military usage. Most modern rifles, even those not in the AR style have features that are no different than the AR style. Likewise declaring semiautomatic ‘weapons of war’ isn’t useful because of similar ideas, most modern guns are semi automatics and with practice, you can learn to fire a non semi auto as fast. It’s also important to understand caliber selection because it plays an important role in the ability to take down what you’re shooting at. Larger calibers are not commonly used by police or military, in their standard issue, for a pretty good reason. They are often unneeded and are more commonly used in backup in those situations where required. Do I think a throughly understanding is needed? No, but understanding the important details is. You can regulate something without knowing it and since a flat out ban is unlikely, regulation, based upon knowledge and established fact, is needed.
      4. I also think it’s important to remember that public mass shooters are rare events that are very unlikely to occur. We all visit the store, work, school, etc hundreds of times a year without ever running into a shooter. It’s important not to let our judgment be swayed by act now and think later policy.
      Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 09-16-2019, 08:12 AM.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        Dunno - not clear on why this matters?

        And no, I don't agree with him - I just don't get this.
        Because he seems to think that AR-15s are battlefield weapons:

        When asked if he was going to ban guns:


        "I am, if it's a weapon that was designed to kill people on a battlefield. If the high-impact, high-velocity round, when it hits your body, shreds everything inside of your body, because it was designed to do that, so that you would bleed to death on a battlefield and not be able to get up and kill one of our soldiers.

        When we see that being used against children, and in Odessa, I met the mother of a 15-year-old girl who was shot by an AR-15, and that mother watched her bleed to death over the course of an hour because so many other people were shot by that AR-15 in Odessa and Midland, there weren't enough ambulances to get to them in time. Hell, yes, we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47. We're not going to allow it to be used against our fellow Americans anymore."


        Also you can't own or operate an AK47 now. They ARE battlefield weapons, full automatic machine guns. You need a federal permit for them. And they ain't handing them out.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          Because he seems to think that AR-15s are battlefield weapons:

          When asked if he was going to ban guns:


          "I am, if it's a weapon that was designed to kill people on a battlefield. If the high-impact, high-velocity round, when it hits your body, shreds everything inside of your body, because it was designed to do that, so that you would bleed to death on a battlefield and not be able to get up and kill one of our soldiers.

          When we see that being used against children, and in Odessa, I met the mother of a 15-year-old girl who was shot by an AR-15, and that mother watched her bleed to death over the course of an hour because so many other people were shot by that AR-15 in Odessa and Midland, there weren't enough ambulances to get to them in time. Hell, yes, we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47. We're not going to allow it to be used against our fellow Americans anymore."


          Also you can't own or operate an AK47 now. They ARE battlefield weapons, full automatic machine guns. You need a federal permit for them. And they ain't handing them out.
          From what I hear the AR15 is not much different than the AK47 so why shouldn't AR15's be banned as well?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by JimL View Post
            From what I hear the AR15 is not much different than the AK47 so why shouldn't AR15's be banned as well?
            Whoever told you that, is an idiot.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              Whoever told you that, is an idiot.
              Ok, why don't you give us a lesson then?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                Ok, why don't you give us a lesson then?
                How are you defining “not much different” for starters. A few:

                1. AR’s are not full auto.
                2. AR’s use a smaller round.
                3. AR’s are more prone to jamming.
                4. AR’s are more accurate.

                That’s just the obvious ones. They do look the similar, but they are not ‘basically the same’.
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                  I’m not avoiding anything Teal because it is actually illegal to shot a deer with a .22, ...
                  Stop right there. Hunting was not a part of the point - you are arguing over an example but still not addressing the point.

                  Go back, read what I actually wrote and then address the bleeping point - or quit bothering me with this nonsense.

                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Because he seems to think that AR-15s are battlefield weapons:

                    When asked if he was going to ban guns:


                    "I am, if it's a weapon that was designed to kill people on a battlefield. If the high-impact, high-velocity round, when it hits your body, shreds everything inside of your body, because it was designed to do that, so that you would bleed to death on a battlefield and not be able to get up and kill one of our soldiers.

                    When we see that being used against children, and in Odessa, I met the mother of a 15-year-old girl who was shot by an AR-15, and that mother watched her bleed to death over the course of an hour because so many other people were shot by that AR-15 in Odessa and Midland, there weren't enough ambulances to get to them in time. Hell, yes, we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47. We're not going to allow it to be used against our fellow Americans anymore."


                    Also you can't own or operate an AK47 now. They ARE battlefield weapons, full automatic machine guns. You need a federal permit for them. And they ain't handing them out.
                    Ah - wasn't worried about the rest - just didn't catch this part. Thanks!

                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                      Stop right there. Hunting was not a part of the point - you are arguing over an example but still not addressing the point.

                      Go back, read what I actually wrote and then address the bleeping point - or quit bothering me with this nonsense.
                      I have addressed it and understand your point just fine. Read all what I said, you’re not going to be able to regulate them without knowing a few things about their operation and characteristics. It’s no different than people that no nothing if driving shouldn’t make traffic laws, people that don’t know nothing about being a doctor shouldn’t make laws about being a doctor, etc. Its not patronizing at all, it’s just how we should operate before we try to regulate something.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        From what I hear the AR15 is not much different than the AK47 so why shouldn't AR15's be banned as well?
                        They are a lot different. AK47s are machine guns. As are M16s. They are both illegal to own without a federal permit. So they are already banned. AR15s and AK47 STYLE rifles are only made to LOOK like military weapons. They function like any hunting rifle. They are semi-auto like most guns today are. One trigger pull shoots one bullet.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          Stop right there. Hunting was not a part of the point - you are arguing over an example but still not addressing the point.

                          Go back, read what I actually wrote and then address the bleeping point - or quit bothering me with this nonsense.
                          You are all off the point. The point is E-Cigartette baning. Not guns.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            I'm not a fan of the general tactic of requiring anybody proposing any solutions in the gun violence debate to have an encyclopedic knowledge of guns. It's gatekeeping, pure and simple. I'm pro-life even though I couldn't describe how abortions occur in any sort of detail and don't see a problem with that.
                            Well, when it ends up that the ignorant person is trying to ban or allow something based on their lack of knowledge, or incorrect knowledge it is important because they are arguing a straw man. If they are trying to ban certain guns because they claim they are military weapons when they are not, that is an important distinction, isn't it?

                            It would be the same regarding abortion. When someone is arguing we should allow full term abortions because the fetus is not alive or human but part of the mother, that too is an argument from ignorance and should be stopped.

                            How can someone propose a good solution regarding guns if they are ignorant of guns in the first place?

                            Or back to the topic, the vaping fluids? If we are just going to ban the flavored vaping fluid just because some people got sick, without any actual proof that something in the flavored vaping fluid cause it, that would be ignorant and wrong.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Because he seems to think that AR-15s are battlefield weapons:

                              When asked if he was going to ban guns:


                              "I am, if it's a weapon that was designed to kill people on a battlefield. If the high-impact, high-velocity round, when it hits your body, shreds everything inside of your body, because it was designed to do that, so that you would bleed to death on a battlefield and not be able to get up and kill one of our soldiers.

                              When we see that being used against children, and in Odessa, I met the mother of a 15-year-old girl who was shot by an AR-15, and that mother watched her bleed to death over the course of an hour because so many other people were shot by that AR-15 in Odessa and Midland, there weren't enough ambulances to get to them in time. Hell, yes, we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47. We're not going to allow it to be used against our fellow Americans anymore."


                              Also you can't own or operate an AK47 now. They ARE battlefield weapons, full automatic machine guns. You need a federal permit for them. And they ain't handing them out.
                              According to wikipedia, the AR15 was originally designed to be a battlefield weapon:

                              Source: wikipedia

                              In 1956, ArmaLite designed a lightweight selective fire rifle for military use and designated it the ArmaLite Rifle model 15, or AR-15.

                              © Copyright Original Source



                              Jim
                              He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                              "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                According to wikipedia, the AR15 was originally designed to be a battlefield weapon:

                                Source: wikipedia

                                In 1956, ArmaLite designed a lightweight selective fire rifle for military use and designated it the ArmaLite Rifle model 15, or AR-15.

                                © Copyright Original Source



                                Jim
                                Which underwent modifications and additions before it was adapted to the military.
                                Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 09-16-2019, 12:44 PM.
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                                Comment

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