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Gun Control - moved from E-cig thread

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    Lil, I grant I don't know a lot, but I'm pretty sure a semi-auto anything is more of a force multiplier than a .22 deer rifle. Also, 'tiny statistical reality' isn't a good defense for letting crazies have semi-automatic weapons.
    If you shoot a deer with a .22, youíre going to have a pretty angry deer after you. Even the .223 round common in AR-15 is often considered too small and people that use them in deer hunting donít use standard .223 rounds. AR-15ís and their style are used, but only relatively small animals in the standard chamber. Second, thereís no easy way to keep the crazies away from guns. Most people suffering from a mental illness are not dangerous and punishing people who have done no crime causes legal issues. The best we can manage is the statical reality that we have a better chance of dying in a car wreck or from medic malpractice, yet do we worry about that, despite the greater chances that the next one can be our last car ride or doctor visit.

    Incidentally, I'm not in favor of the ban - these are just preaching to the choir arguments (well, and you missed Jim's point on the first one).
    Jim is talking about things he doesnít understand.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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    • #17
      Originally posted by JimL View Post
      Actually you are wrong, the great majority of Americans including republicans gun enthusiats are in favor of gun control including the banning of military style weapons that were meant for war. It's true that there is a large contingent of Trumpsters and the NRA lobbyist who care more about owning and profiteering from such weapons than they do about the slaughter of innocent people, including children, but the great majority of people, again, including gun owners, want those weapons of mass destruction off the market and off the streets.
      Most people are stupid. Name one military that uses the AR-15, the scary thing is people like you believe these lies and vote for people that flat out lie to you.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
        If you shoot a deer with a .22, youíre going to have a pretty angry deer after you. Even the .223 round common in AR-15 is often considered too small and people that use them in deer hunting donít use standard .223 rounds. AR-15ís and their style are used, but only relatively small animals in the standard chamber. Second, thereís no easy way to keep the crazies away from guns. Most people suffering from a mental illness are not dangerous and punishing people who have done no crime causes legal issues. The best we can manage is the statical reality that we have a better chance of dying in a car wreck or from medic malpractice, yet do we worry about that, despite the greater chances that the next one can be our last car ride or doctor visit.



        Jim is talking about things he doesnít understand.
        And you're talking BS. You don't need a military style semiautomatic weapon to shoot at deer, and when shot the deer isn't coming after you, if he's still able he's running for his life. You're obviously the one with no clue.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
          Most people are stupid. Name one military that uses the AR-15, the scary thing is people like you believe these lies and vote for people that flat out lie to you.
          The only one that brought up the AR-15 in particular was you, Lipix.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            I'm not a fan of the general tactic of requiring anybody proposing any solutions in the gun violence debate to have an encyclopedic knowledge of guns. It's gatekeeping, pure and simple. I'm pro-life even though I couldn't describe how abortions occur in any sort of detail and don't see a problem with that.
            Proposing common sense laws and not knowing the basic details is a problem.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by JimL View Post
              The only one that brought up the AR-15 in particular was you, Lipix.
              We both know what you were talking about Jimmy. Actually military weapons take a special permit that is expensive and only so many exist. None have been used in mass shootings.
              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                And you're talking BS. You don't need a military style semiautomatic weapon to shoot at deer, and when shot the deer isn't coming after you, if he's still able he's running for his life. You're obviously the one with no clue.
                Semi automatic weapons are standard equipment Jimmy that have existed for well over a century. My grandfather used them and used several back in the 40ís. Please stop talking, youíre making yourself look like an idiot.
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  And why should anyone care what the gun proponents who support the sale and ownership of military style weapons of mass destruction think when the great majority of Americans, which includes many gun proponents, oppose them? How is that supposed to help Republicans in 2020? It's certainly not going to help Trump if he decides to go that route, though he probably will because the supporters of the sale and ownership of these weapons are a large portion of his wacky base.
                  Semi-auto firearms are WMD? Wow, then the military found literally tons upon tons of even deadlier WMDs when they went into Iraq and therefore vindicated Bush.

                  The whole "military style weapons" is an obvious farce even for those with merely a cursory understanding of firearms. Virtually every gun made over the past 160 or so years would qualify. And since military snipers still often use bolt action rifles (requires that each and every round be manually chambered), even they constitute "military style weapons."

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    You're obviously the one with no clue.
                    Iron E.jpg

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                      Lil, I grant I don't know a lot, but I'm pretty sure a semi-auto anything is more of a force multiplier than a .22 deer rifle. Also, 'tiny statistical reality' isn't a good defense for letting crazies have semi-automatic weapons.

                      Incidently, I'm not in favor of the ban - these are just preaching to the choir arguments (well, and you missed Jim's point on the first one).
                      If you go out with a standard .22 to hunt deer all you'll likely accomplish is wounding it and causing it to die an agonizing death later. That's even worse than using a shotgun to hunt deer.

                      Moreover, the right to bear arms is not some right to go deer hunting. It is a right to protect yourself. The right to self-defense. Let's please stop trying to misstate what the 2A is all about.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        I'm not a fan of the general tactic of requiring anybody proposing any solutions in the gun violence debate to have an encyclopedic knowledge of guns. It's gatekeeping, pure and simple. I'm pro-life even though I couldn't describe how abortions occur in any sort of detail and don't see a problem with that.
                        It does get old listening to folks describing old-fashioned semi-automatic firearms as being "military style" and even confusing them for full automatic weapons (something I've seen done literally dozens of times by reporters on TV).

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                          If you shoot a deer with a .22, youíre going to have a pretty angry deer after you. Even the .223 round common in AR-15 is often considered too small and people that use them in deer hunting donít use standard .223 rounds. AR-15ís and their style are used, but only relatively small animals in the standard chamber.
                          Explaining why nearly a dozen states prohibit their use in deer hunting.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            I'm not a fan of the general tactic of requiring anybody proposing any solutions in the gun violence debate to have an encyclopedic knowledge of guns. It's gatekeeping, pure and simple. I'm pro-life even though I couldn't describe how abortions occur in any sort of detail and don't see a problem with that.
                            They have a valid point when dealing with the specifics of legislation, but not when debating the principle.

                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              If you go out with a standard .22 to hunt deer all you'll likely accomplish is wounding it and causing it to die an agonizing death later. That's even worse than using a shotgun to hunt deer.
                              Er, maybe - I've seen too many stuffed deer attributed to a .22 - but raising the caliber doesn't negate the point, does it?

                              Moreover, the right to bear arms is not some right to go deer hunting. It is a right to protect yourself. The right to self-defense. Let's please stop trying to misstate what the 2A is all about.
                              Which wasn't even related to the point - or what I said - and you darn well know it.

                              Repeat after me: some weapons are more significant force multipliers than others.

                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                                If you shoot a deer with a .22, youíre going to have a pretty angry deer after you. Even the .223 round common in AR-15 is often considered too small and people that use them in deer hunting donít use standard .223 rounds. AR-15ís and their style are used, but only relatively small animals in the standard chamber. Second, thereís no easy way to keep the crazies away from guns. Most people suffering from a mental illness are not dangerous and punishing people who have done no crime causes legal issues. The best we can manage is the statical reality that we have a better chance of dying in a car wreck or from medic malpractice, yet do we worry about that, despite the greater chances that the next one can be our last car ride or doctor visit.
                                I grew up with morons that brought back stubby little dead deer with their trusty .22's - and I've been shot at at least twice (was never 100% sure about the third one) by the same morons - there's a reason I'm pro-'morons shouldn't have guns, including BB guns'. But I am willing to acknowledge that law abiding non-morons might have a legitimate point.

                                Word to the wise, jumping on people who aren't your enemy is a good way to lose potential allies.

                                Back on topic: But that doesn't address the point you missed - and railing about caliber doesn't impress me when I acknowledged my short coming and you decide to pull this anyway.

                                FYI: that statistical argument only works from necessity - very few gun owners can make that claim. You don't have a right to unnecessarily endanger others - which is why arguing from statistics that way won't work.


                                Jim is talking about things he doesnít understand.
                                No, this time you're deliberately avoiding the actual point.
                                Last edited by Teallaura; 09-16-2019, 04:08 AM.

                                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                                My Personal Blog

                                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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