Are Re-Education Camps That Far Fetched?

[firstfloor]

So if one objected to homosexual behavior on religious grounds he/she is a bigot?

I would say so. Bigotry is just another word for intolerance. Religious intolerance is the worst sort because it is destructively conservative. It does not easily learn new tricks or new ways of understanding the world and is often slow to absorb new knowledge. The current gay marriage debate in Christianity is just one example of the problem of religiously inspired intolerance in the world. Blasphemy and Apostasy are other big issues of the same type.

[seer]

Being politically correct (if you are in the public eye) is not sufficient because it just makes a person think they have to shut up about what they really think and most people will be able to see through the deception. I think the point of education is to raise awareness of issues that are unfamiliar to a person so that they can start to reassess their own perceptions. The thing about bigotry is that the person displaying it thinks he is justified; that he is being realistic rather than bigoted. In education, that person will learn what he has misunderstood about a particular issue.

Religious bigotry is very difficult to combat because the religious bigot is trained to not learn anything new. He finds it difficult to go past his own obsolete ‘truth’.

So if one objected to homosexual behavior on religious grounds he/she is a bigot?

[firstfloor]

I often wonder what these classes are like. What if a Muslim, or conservative Jew or Christian said that they believed that homosexual behavior was deeply immoral. What would they say? Tell you that you shouldn't believe these things? How would the conversation go?

Being politically correct (if you are in the public eye) is not sufficient because it just makes a person think they have to shut up about what they really think and most people will be able to see through the deception. I think the point of education is to raise awareness of issues that are unfamiliar to a person so that they can start to reassess their own perceptions. The thing about bigotry is that the person displaying it thinks he is justified; that he is being realistic rather than bigoted. In education, that person will learn what he has misunderstood about a particular issue.

Religious bigotry is very difficult to combat because the religious bigot is trained to not learn anything new. He finds it difficult to go past his own obsolete ‘truth’.

[Leonhard]

Leonhard, even if Don Jones made his views known calmly, or based on Christian convictions, it would have been the same. There have been a number of high profile cases of late like the CEO of Mozilla. It is chilling, there is an orthodoxy forming in this country and you better hope that you don't get on the wrong side of it.

Some of that is true, but saying that it wouldn't have been different in this case is supposition and tacitly admitting that we shouldn't be criticising Don Jones for the way he spoke.

[seer]

He also acted like an irresponsible jerk, its not clear cut. He wasn't merely in a calm and controlled, and gracious fashion informing a fellow person about the Christian stance on human sexuality. That being said I agree with you, he shouldn't be fired for speaking his opinion, but I'm not so sure he couldn't be reprimanded for the way he did it.

Secondly I just wanted clarification on whether it was government doing this, or whether it was a private company. It was the latter.

Leonhard, even if Don Jones made his views known calmly, or based on Christian convictions, it would have been the same. There have been a number of high profile cases of late like the CEO of Mozilla. It is chilling, there is an orthodoxy forming in this country and you better hope that you don't get on the wrong side of it.

[Leonhard]

Yes, it is job compliance, it doesn't make it any more acceptable. Again what if Don Jones came out and said, according to his religious beliefs, he believed that homosexual behavior or gay marriage were deeply immoral - should he be fined or be threatened with job loss?

He also acted like an irresponsible jerk, its not clear cut. He wasn't merely in a calm and controlled, and gracious fashion informing a fellow person about the Christian stance on human sexuality. That being said I agree with you, he shouldn't be fired for speaking his opinion, but I'm not so sure he couldn't be reprimanded for the way he did it.

Secondly I just wanted clarification on whether it was government doing this, or whether it was a private company. It was the latter.

[Darth Xena]

I am not speaking at all to the OP but I was not speaking to the OP at all but in general to the idea that ones private opinion and thoughts and public advocacy unrelated to the job should be the basis for firing.

It makes me literally nauseated to see people defending that. I can see the soothing attraction of it when one is on the socially "right" side of the issue but it is bankrupt and doomed to end in the proverbial image of a boot smashing a human face.

[KingsGambit]

Since as has been mentioned, religious freedom has some legal protections, I would have liked to see what would have happened had he pursued that line of argumentation.

In the mid-90s, a Muslim NBA player refused to stand for the national anthem at games on the grounds that he felt it violated his religious beliefs. He got suspended by the league, but as it turns out, it would have probably been legally problematic to push it against him, so the league came up with a compromise for him. I don't know how similar the situation is to this one but it came to mind.

ETA: Obviously I'm not morally comparing the two cases, I'm just looking at this from a legal POV.

[Teallaura]

...
Why can't we all be mature adults and not children.

I dunno - sometimes I think children act better...

[Zymologist]

Why do people forget that unlike sexual preference, religious freedom is A. Civil. Right. and protected in employment practices. I know some people hate that. But it is one of the founding principles of this country.

For the record, I would be outraged if a gay person were fired for their political beliefs. Wrong. On. Any. Count. Whether or not it is now or is in the future a codified civil right. It is a human right to have an unpopular opinion, and I would gladly stand up for gay people who are denied this.

It disgusts me that others don't accord this same freedom. It is a horrendously chilling effect on everyone's rights to participate in the public sphere if anyone sits by when people lose their jobs for reasons completely unrelated to their ability to perform the job. It was wrong any time any conservative ever did that to any gay person. It is equally wrong to do that because of someone's religious beliefs.

I can sleep at night because I defend this right to all people.

It is ghastly to me that people try to hide behind the idea that protection of free speech any belongs to the government as if it isn't a completely noble principle that in nearly every situation we should be calling people to in all facets. I believe in real tolerance.

But the hard fact again is this, Religious Liberty is a protected Civil Right. I thought everyone was so concerned about rights today, but not the one's inconvenient to your particular POV? That is called hypocrisy.

No one should have their free speech chilled in this way.

And I walk the walk. TWeb is founded and is ran upon these very principles. Unpopular opinions are allowed. Without fear.

I am speaking on principles that transcend this particular issue. Having libertarian leanings, I don't think the State should be involved in marriage. I think people should be free to pursue their happiness in that manner in whichever way they choose. Live and let live. Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me. We are all adults, aren't we? I don't care what you think of my life, and Lord knows, I have brought forth here and stated it is a person's own business if they want to live an alternative lifestyle. And no I won't argue about with those that disagree. I say, be well, and you are entitled to your position.

The freedom of the human mind and open participation to all in the public sphere is my purpose. To. All. You want to marry another man but are a great mechanic? Awesome, when can I bring you my car? You are a supporter of opposite sex marriage only but can paint houses like no one's business? Great, what do you charge?

Why can't we all be mature adults and not children.

[Darth Xena]

Why do people forget that unlike sexual preference, religious freedom is A. Civil. Right. and protected in employment practices. I know some people hate that. But it is one of the founding principles of this country.

For the record, I would be outraged if a gay person were fired for their political beliefs. Wrong. On. Any. Count. Whether or not it is now or is in the future a codified civil right. It is a human right to have an unpopular opinion, and I would gladly stand up for gay people who are denied this.

It disgusts me that others don't accord this same freedom. It is a horrendously chilling effect on everyone's rights to participate in the public sphere if anyone sits by when people lose their jobs for reasons completely unrelated to their ability to perform the job. It was wrong any time any conservative ever did that to any gay person. It is equally wrong to do that because of someone's religious beliefs.

I can sleep at night because I defend this right to all people.

It is ghastly to me that people try to hide behind the idea that protection of free speech any belongs to the government as if it isn't a completely noble principle that in nearly every situation we should be calling people to in all facets. I believe in real tolerance.

But the hard fact again is this, Religious Liberty is a protected Civil Right. I thought everyone was so concerned about rights today, but not the one's inconvenient to your particular POV? That is called hypocrisy.

No one should have their free speech chilled in this way.

And I walk the walk. TWeb is founded and is ran upon these very principles. Unpopular opinions are allowed. Without fear.

I am speaking on principles that transcend this particular issue. Having libertarian leanings, I don't think the State should be involved in marriage. I think people should be free to pursue their happiness in that manner in whichever way they choose. Live and let live. Sticks and stones can break my bones but words can never hurt me. We are all adults, aren't we? I don't care what you think of my life, and Lord knows, I have brought forth here and stated it is a person's own business if they want to live an alternative lifestyle. And no I won't argue about with those that disagree. I say, be well, and you are entitled to your position.

The freedom of the human mind and open participation to all in the public sphere is my purpose. To. All. You want to marry another man but are a great mechanic? Awesome, when can I bring you my car? You are a supporter of opposite sex marriage only but can paint houses like no one's business? Great, what do you charge?

Why can't we all be mature adults and not children.

[RumTumTugger]

You mean it would be OK to fire a homosexual because he supports gay marriage publicly?

New amen button.

[Bill the Cat]

You mean it would be OK to fire a homosexual because he supports gay marriage publicly?

Zing!

[Cerebrum123]

I thought we called them "Public Schools" nowadays.

[seer]

Do you not believe in a free market? Are you saying you are against at-will employment?

You mean it would be OK to fire a homosexual because he supports gay marriage publicly?