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Are Re-Education Camps That Far Fetched?

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  • #31
    I am not speaking at all to the OP but I was not speaking to the OP at all but in general to the idea that ones private opinion and thoughts and public advocacy unrelated to the job should be the basis for firing.

    It makes me literally nauseated to see people defending that. I can see the soothing attraction of it when one is on the socially "right" side of the issue but it is bankrupt and doomed to end in the proverbial image of a boot smashing a human face.
    The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      Yes, it is job compliance, it doesn't make it any more acceptable. Again what if Don Jones came out and said, according to his religious beliefs, he believed that homosexual behavior or gay marriage were deeply immoral - should he be fined or be threatened with job loss?
      He also acted like an irresponsible jerk, its not clear cut. He wasn't merely in a calm and controlled, and gracious fashion informing a fellow person about the Christian stance on human sexuality. That being said I agree with you, he shouldn't be fired for speaking his opinion, but I'm not so sure he couldn't be reprimanded for the way he did it.

      Secondly I just wanted clarification on whether it was government doing this, or whether it was a private company. It was the latter.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
        He also acted like an irresponsible jerk, its not clear cut. He wasn't merely in a calm and controlled, and gracious fashion informing a fellow person about the Christian stance on human sexuality. That being said I agree with you, he shouldn't be fired for speaking his opinion, but I'm not so sure he couldn't be reprimanded for the way he did it.

        Secondly I just wanted clarification on whether it was government doing this, or whether it was a private company. It was the latter.
        Leonhard, even if Don Jones made his views known calmly, or based on Christian convictions, it would have been the same. There have been a number of high profile cases of late like the CEO of Mozilla. It is chilling, there is an orthodoxy forming in this country and you better hope that you don't get on the wrong side of it.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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        • #34
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          Leonhard, even if Don Jones made his views known calmly, or based on Christian convictions, it would have been the same. There have been a number of high profile cases of late like the CEO of Mozilla. It is chilling, there is an orthodoxy forming in this country and you better hope that you don't get on the wrong side of it.
          Some of that is true, but saying that it wouldn't have been different in this case is supposition and tacitly admitting that we shouldn't be criticising Don Jones for the way he spoke.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            I often wonder what these classes are like. What if a Muslim, or conservative Jew or Christian said that they believed that homosexual behavior was deeply immoral. What would they say? Tell you that you shouldn't believe these things? How would the conversation go?
            Being politically correct (if you are in the public eye) is not sufficient because it just makes a person think they have to shut up about what they really think and most people will be able to see through the deception. I think the point of education is to raise awareness of issues that are unfamiliar to a person so that they can start to reassess their own perceptions. The thing about bigotry is that the person displaying it thinks he is justified; that he is being realistic rather than bigoted. In education, that person will learn what he has misunderstood about a particular issue.

            Religious bigotry is very difficult to combat because the religious bigot is trained to not learn anything new. He finds it difficult to go past his own obsolete ‘truth’.
            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
            “not all there” - you know who you are

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            • #36
              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
              Being politically correct (if you are in the public eye) is not sufficient because it just makes a person think they have to shut up about what they really think and most people will be able to see through the deception. I think the point of education is to raise awareness of issues that are unfamiliar to a person so that they can start to reassess their own perceptions. The thing about bigotry is that the person displaying it thinks he is justified; that he is being realistic rather than bigoted. In education, that person will learn what he has misunderstood about a particular issue.

              Religious bigotry is very difficult to combat because the religious bigot is trained to not learn anything new. He finds it difficult to go past his own obsolete ‘truth’.
              So if one objected to homosexual behavior on religious grounds he/she is a bigot?
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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              • #37
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                So if one objected to homosexual behavior on religious grounds he/she is a bigot?
                I would say so. Bigotry is just another word for intolerance. Religious intolerance is the worst sort because it is destructively conservative. It does not easily learn new tricks or new ways of understanding the world and is often slow to absorb new knowledge. The current gay marriage debate in Christianity is just one example of the problem of religiously inspired intolerance in the world. Blasphemy and Apostasy are other big issues of the same type.
                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                “not all there” - you know who you are

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                  I would say so. Bigotry is just another word for intolerance. Religious intolerance is the worst sort because it is destructively conservative. It does not easily learn new tricks or new ways of understanding the world and is often slow to absorb new knowledge. The current gay marriage debate in Christianity is just one example of the problem of religiously inspired intolerance in the world. Blasphemy and Apostasy are other big issues of the same type.
                  Can you define tolerance for me in your own words?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Can you define tolerance for me in your own words?
                    Tolerance in this context is about the open and ungrudging willingness to rub along with people of different opinions and behaviours and it is welcoming of diversity because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. It is about the celebration rather than the denigration of difference; hands across the sea and all that.
                    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                    “not all there” - you know who you are

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                      I would say so. Bigotry is just another word for intolerance. Religious intolerance is the worst sort because it is destructively conservative. It does not easily learn new tricks or new ways of understanding the world and is often slow to absorb new knowledge. The current gay marriage debate in Christianity is just one example of the problem of religiously inspired intolerance in the world. Blasphemy and Apostasy are other big issues of the same type.
                      FF, on this board, I and others, have posted thread after thread of the intolerance coming from the left. There is no, and I mean zero, evidence of Christians trying to get people fired or fined or ostracized for supporting let's say gay marriage or gay rights. The intolerance is coming from the left is far more destructive than anything coming from the conservatives. Talk about bigotry...
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                        Tolerance in this context is about the open and ungrudging willingness to rub along with people of different opinions and behaviours and it is welcoming of diversity because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
                        You mean like what the left isn't doing...
                        Last edited by seer; 05-13-2014, 09:21 AM.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                          Tolerance in this context is about the open and ungrudging willingness to rub along with people of different opinions and behaviours and it is welcoming of diversity because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. It is about the celebration rather than the denigration of difference; hands across the sea and all that.
                          *emphasis mine

                          So you are necessarily a bigot yourself when you call anyone else a bigot on any grounds - and a hypocrite.
                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                            Tolerance in this context is about the open and ungrudging willingness to rub along with people of different opinions and behaviours and it is welcoming of diversity because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. It is about the celebration rather than the denigration of difference; hands across the sea and all that.
                            What you are talking about is "agreement" though.

                            Tolerance is allowing different opinions and beliefs that you yourself do not hold. You TOLERATE them. That doesn't mean you celebrate them, or agree with them.

                            Just like I tolerate you. I don't like you or your trollish behavior here on tweb, or your smugness. But I tolerate the fact that you have a right to your own opinions, and can say what you want within the bounds of the rules on this site.

                            Tolerance is not about agreeing or celebrating with someone. It is putting up with them and their views EVEN THOUGH YOU DISAGREE WITH THEM.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              FF, on this board, I and others, have posted thread after thread of the intolerance coming from the left. There is no, and I mean zero, evidence of Christians trying to get people fired or fined or ostracized for supporting let's say gay marriage or gay rights. The intolerance is coming from the left is far more destructive than anything coming from the conservatives. Talk about bigotry...
                              It seems that way because the LBGT movement is becoming more vocal and more intolerant of intolerance in political circles. Sodomy laws were repealed quite recently so it is still a relatively new phenomenon and as long as the argument persists it will be quite noisy. But it amazes me that in the currently young generation it is old news. They have moved on even if we haven’t quite yet.
                              “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                              “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                              “not all there” - you know who you are

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                                *emphasis mine

                                So you are necessarily a bigot yourself when you call anyone else a bigot on any grounds - and a hypocrite.
                                You might be. I would recommend a self test and try to avoid calling a bigot a bigot ‘cos they are likely to call you a bigot right back.
                                http://helloquizzy.okcupid.com/tests...ous-bigot-test
                                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                                “not all there” - you know who you are

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