Originally posted by JimL
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThe founding fathers was not a monolithic group. Thomas Jefferson was a deist.
Jim
This is so true, that of the proprietors of slaves a very small proportion indeed are ever seen to labour. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever: that considering numbers, nature and natural means only, a revolution of the wheel of fortune, an exchange of situation, is among possible events: that it may become probable by supernatural interference!Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo deist would have uttered this:
This is so true, that of the proprietors of slaves a very small proportion indeed are ever seen to labour. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever: that considering numbers, nature and natural means only, a revolution of the wheel of fortune, an exchange of situation, is among possible events: that it may become probable by supernatural interference!
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWell, I'm just thankful that the SCOTUS in their wisdom disagreed with you all as to what the Establishment Clause was meant to convey. No offense Jim.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostDeists believe in God seer. And Deism in his day was not quite as aloof from an active God as it is today:
JimAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostRoy, "conservative", in this sense, refers to those who will stick to the constitution, and not try to force it to say something it does not say -- like Roe V Wade. Even many liberals admit there was no constitutional basis for that decision - it was clearly activist.Yes, there are very clear reasons liberals can't be origionalists... because their whole platform is PROGRESSIVISM, which is antithetical to CONSERVATIVISM, or originalism, and must be ACTIVIST to "progress".
Why can't some-one both interpret the constitution according to its original meaning and want to change the constitution to something else via the amendment process?
You're suggesting allliberalsprogressives want to reinterpret the constitution while retaining the original wording, rather that amending the constitution. This seems unlikely.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by seer View PostThat is not classic Deism, it sounds more like a non-descriptive theism.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostJefferson's religious views are almost universally described as a form of deism in every book I've ever read on him or historical reference to his views I am aware of. e.g. If you take a trip to Monticello, you will be told by many sources there that Thomas Jefferson was a Deist and a Naturalist/Scientist.
Jim
And:While many biographers, as well as some of his contemporaries, have characterized Jefferson as a Deist, historians and scholars have not found any such self-identification in Jefferson's surviving writings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religi...rson_and_DeismLast edited by seer; 09-19-2019, 08:35 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostRight, but like I said that is not the classic definition of Deism - there is no divine providence or possible wrath.
And:While many biographers, as well as some of his contemporaries, have characterized Jefferson as a Deist, historians and scholars have not found any such self-identification in Jefferson's surviving writings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religi...rson_and_Deism
Since he expresses directly he did not accept divine revelation, you can't call him Christian or Jewish in his faith.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/27532613.pdf
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 09-19-2019, 08:51 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by seer View PostRight, but like I said that is not the classic definition of Deism - there is no divine providence or possible wrath.
And:While many biographers, as well as some of his contemporaries, have characterized Jefferson as a Deist, historians and scholars have not found any such self-identification in Jefferson's surviving writings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religi...rson_and_Deism
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostBy exposing the lies... at our pregnancy center, every day women are astounded at how much the baby has developed because they can see the baby using modern technology. MOST of them will choose not to abort when they see what (who) it is they are killing.
IIRC one pro-life group even pretended a sculpted doll was a foetus. Science exposed that lie too. (Found it)
Actually, in my book, they're based on the principle of the sanctity of human life.
It's not a game - in any sense of the word.Actually, no. As JimL correctly pointed out, a case has to specifically be brought to them, usually after battling in lower courts. They don't determine "which laws should be upheld" -- they determine which cases presented to them are unconstitutional.That's a whole lot of word juggling -- they still don't "change the law" - they simply evaluate if it - or part of it - is unconstitutional.
So, here's my concession -- in the sense that a particular tenant or point or condition of a law is ruled unconstitutional, it has the effect of changing that law.No. The "conservative" judge is, by nature, originalist. Most of us conservatives simply want the judges to "stick to the constitution" and the law - not be activists.
Progressive activist judges need to be removed/replaced.
It's the stated strategy.
1) Vote for Trump, because he will ...
2) ... appoint conservative judges, who will
3) ... uphold laws against abortion.
*In those cases which involve judicial review, rather than the majority of cases, in which the court's task is to determine whether laws have been broken.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI would not consider that all that telling. In the time, I don't believe it would not have been acceptable for a leader of the country to express publicly anything other than a more traditional Christian view of God. Indeed, he was often accused of being an infidel.
Since he expresses directly he did not accept divine revelation, you can't call him Christian or Jewish in his faith.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWell, regardless, Jeffereson wasn't a christian, seer. He didn't believe in miracles, divine revelation, that Jesus was raised from the dead. Basically, he didn't believe in the bible. So what would you call him?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostNo offense taken. The meaning of the word religion in the timeframe in which the words were written was inclusive of things like Islam or Buddhism or Hindu only in a secondary sense. These were not seen as 'true religion' in that time. Monotheism that recognized the Judeo-Christian God as the The only God was what constituted 'true religion', the rest was essentially paganism and not compatible with the principles founding this country. We have veered very far from that and I believe many of the present day interpretations of the relationship between our government and religion as they understood the term are in fact in violation of what the founding fathers intended. They did not want a state church as there was in England. They wanted to continue as the country began as a place where people of varying interpretations of the Christian Bible could exercise their understanding of that text without fear of state interference. And they were inclusive enough in their language, based on how the words were understood and used in that day, to allow people like Jefferson some comfort they would not be able to be oppressed. They never intended for the state to effectively embrace the concept that tends more to a 'freedom FROM religion', where religious (i.e. Judeo Christian based religious) thought and expression was banished from the government.
Jim
The Founders may not have understood or recognized african americans as being human beings at the time either,they didn't, but they understood and recognized the principle that all men are created equal with the same rights and so the government follows that principle today with respect to black people even though they didn't at that time. The Constitution is about the principles writ within it, not the traditions played out at the time. I believe that is how the SCOTUS interprets it as well, and rightly so.Last edited by JimL; 09-19-2019, 09:29 AM.
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Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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