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Why I Voted For Trump...

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  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    It is extremely unlikely that he misunderstood the intent of the First Amendment considering he was one of the key figures responsible for drafting the US Constitution. It is plainly obvious to any intellectually honest person that our Founding Fathers did not believe in or enforce any modern notion of "separation of church and state".
    As has been noted numerous times, the phrase "separation of church and state" came from Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut. They were concerned that there would be a "state religion", and Jefferson was assuring them there would not be.

    It was about the government staying out of the church's business.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      As Jerry Falwell once said, "Why are liberals opposed to the Ten Commandments posted in a courtroom? Are they afraid that someone might read them, take them to heart, and repent?"
      No, that's not why, stupid. Is that why you'd be opposed to excerpts of the Koran posted on a monument in a courtroom?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
        No, that's not why, stupid. Is that why you'd be opposed to excerpts of the Koran posted on a monument in a courtroom?
        I hope you realize that the Quran had no part in the founding of our nation, Jim. The Decalogue, on the other hand, was part of our history from the beginning.
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          As has been noted numerous times, the phrase "separation of church and state" came from Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut. They were concerned that there would be a "state religion", and Jefferson was assuring them there would not be.

          It was about the government staying out of the church's business.
          No, it was about the government not asserting a state religion, as the letter makes clear. If the government will establish no state religion then posting christian monuments and such in government buildings would be in contradiction to that policy.

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          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            I hope you realize that the Quran had no part in the founding of our nation, Jim. The Decalogue, on the other hand, was part of our history from the beginning.
            I would that you'd realize, CP, that religion, regardless of any part it may have played, is separate from government.

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            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
              No, it was about the government not asserting a state religion, as the letter makes clear. If the government will establish no state religion then posting christian monuments and such in government buildings would be in contradiction to that policy.
              The Christian religion has been a part of the USA from its beginning. The President is sworn in on a bible, Congress has chaplains and each session is opened with a prayer. Our money says, "In God We Trust." Our military has religious officers, called chaplains. We had prayer in school for the first 150 years of the country. So how come nobody noticed all this religion in government and complained about it till around 1970? Why didn't Jefferson notice that he was sworn in on a bible? or that Congress was opened with a prayer?

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              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                I would that you'd realize, CP, that religion, regardless of any part it may have played, is separate from government.
                Jimmyhoneybaby, you can keep repeating that all you want, but you're simply displaying your ignorance. Perhaps you're unaware the House and the Senate actually BOTH have a CHAPLAIN who is responsible for leading the invocation prior to every session. This goes all the way back to 1789.

                And it might interest you to know that the same early legislators who wrote the United States Constitution and its Bill of Rights were the same ones who approved and appointed the chaplains.
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  The Christian religion has been a part of the USA from its beginning. The President is sworn in on a bible, Congress has chaplains and each session is opened with a prayer. Our money says, "In God We Trust." Our military has religious officers, called chaplains. We had prayer in school for the first 150 years of the country. So how come nobody noticed all this religion in government and complained about it till around 1970? Why didn't Jefferson notice that he was sworn in on a bible? or that Congress was opened with a prayer?
                  Well, yeah, but other than that, there's absolutely NO religion in government. Jimmy says so!
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Well, yeah, but other than that, there's absolutely NO religion in government. Jimmy says so!
                    Oh and the Supreme Court has moses and the ten commandments built into the roof. Talk about one nation under God.


                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      Oh and the Supreme Court has moses and the ten commandments built into the roof. Talk about one nation under God.

                      "All men are created equal" yet we still had slavery. The intent is one thing, the reality at the time, another.

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                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        "All men are created equal" yet we still had slavery. The intent is one thing, the reality at the time, another.
                        Trying to change the topic because you realize you were wrong?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                          Notice that your decision was not based on the Constitution itself, but a phrase plucked out of context from a private correspondence! That's what the SCOTUS does, they try to interpret the intent of the Founders which is not always perfectly clear in the document itself.
                          First, Washington's address to the Delaware Indian chiefs was not a private correspondence like Jefferson's letter as you suggest but, rather, a public declaration of official government policy by the President of the United States.

                          Second, there is no ambiguity in the First Amendment.

                          "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

                          Our Founding Fathers appointed a chaplain to open sessions of Congress with a word of prayer. In 1777, Congress passed a resolution to purchase 20,000 Bibles to be distributed throughout the states. Five years later, in 1782, Congress passed a resolution authorizing the printing of an American edition of the Bible and even specified that it was to be used in schools! There are numerous acts of Congress in its first decade that officially recognized and thanked the providence of God and Jesus Christ and called on the citizens of the United States to do the same.

                          https://www.gospelway.com/government...l_congress.php
                          https://wallbuilders.com/aitken-bible-congress/#

                          These "inconvenient truths" again drive home the fact that any modern notion of "separation of church and state" and certain decisions by the Supreme Court in in the past 75-years would have baffled our Founding Fathers who simply took it for granted that America was an inherently Christian nation.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            As long as if you can maintain that same attitude if the prayer is to Allah, or some Hindu deity, or the Bhudda, then what you say makes sense. But once you limit what kinds of prayers can be said, then the government is, in fact, picking which religions will be state supported, and that violates the establishment clause.

                            Jim
                            Nope, again Jim Allah has nothing to do with the founding and history of this nation. And as my link showed - the founders certain did support the Christian religion with tax monies, and that was not controversial.

                            Library of Congress:

                            The Continental-Confederation Congress, a legislative body that governed the United States from 1774 to 1789, contained an extraordinary number of deeply religious men. The amount of energy that Congress invested in encouraging the practice of religion in the new nation exceeded that expended by any subsequent American national government. Although the Articles of Confederation did not officially authorize Congress to concern itself with religion, the citizenry did not object to such activities. This lack of objection suggests that both the legislators and the public considered it appropriate for the national government to promote a nondenominational, nonpolemical Christianity.

                            Congress appointed chaplains for itself and the armed forces, sponsored the publication of a Bible, imposed Christian morality on the armed forces, and granted public lands to promote Christianity among the Indians. National days of thanksgiving and of "humiliation, fasting, and prayer" were proclaimed by Congress at least twice a year throughout the war. Congress was guided by "covenant theology," a Reformation doctrine especially dear to New England Puritans, which held that God bound himself in an agreement with a nation and its people. This agreement stipulated that they "should be prosperous or afflicted, according as their general Obedience or Disobedience thereto appears." Wars and revolutions were, accordingly, considered afflictions, as divine punishments for sin, from which a nation could rescue itself by repentance and reformation.

                            The first national government of the United States, was convinced that the "public prosperity" of a society depended on the vitality of its religion. Nothing less than a "spirit of universal reformation among all ranks and degrees of our citizens," Congress declared to the American people, would "make us a holy, that so we may be a happy people."

                            https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel04.html
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Trying to change the topic because you realize you were wrong?
                              Nope, just pointing out the fact that the intent of the Founders in principle as written in the Constitution did not necessarily reflect the realities of the time.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                "All men are created equal" yet we still had slavery.
                                Yeah, that was very problematic - glad they got that worked out.

                                The intent is one thing, the reality at the time, another.
                                The reality is that you're wrong - Congress has all kinds of "religion" woven into the very fabric of our nation. Government can't make laws establishing religion OR prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
                                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                                Comment

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