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Why I Voted For Trump...

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  • #91
    Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    It isn't about the kids. Christian kids, I'm sure, participate in the science, math, and chess clubs as well. It's about government sponsership of a religion.
    There's nothing in the Constitution that prohibits the government from sponsoring or participating in religious activities. They just can't make it a law.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      In my schools growing up prayer was voluntary and teacher led. Some teachers would and others wouldn't. And you did NOT have to join in (mostly said the our Father). I had one teacher who read a Psalm every morning. I don't see how this violates the above standard.
      It doesn't, and prohibiting the practice is a clear violation of the First Amendment.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        There's nothing in the Constitution that prohibits the government from sponsoring or participating in religious activities. They just can't make it a law.
        The SCOTUS disagrees with you concerning the intent of the law, and so do I.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          It doesn't, and prohibiting the practice is a clear violation of the First Amendment.
          Would you say the same if it were a Muslim teacher choosing to begin class with muslim prayers?

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by JimL View Post
            Would you say the same if it were a Muslim teacher choosing to begin class with muslim prayers?
            Nope, Muslims have no historical connection with our founding. Or human rights as sourced in the Declaration.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by JimL View Post
              Would you say the same if it were a Muslim teacher choosing to begin class with muslim prayers?
              Or a member of the local coven ...

              The clubs are another matter. Student clubs should be able to cover a range of interests, including religious ones.

              Jim
              He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

              "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Nope, Muslims have no historical connection with our founding. Or human rights as sourced in the Declaration.
                That has nothing to do with it. These are public schools attended by children of every faith as well as atheists and it is not the governments job to indoctrinate/teach religion to children, it's the parents job. That is the intent of the Establishment Clause, the wall of separation between church/religion and state.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by JimL View Post
                  That has nothing to do with it. These are public schools attended by children of every faith as well as atheists and it is not the governments job to indoctrinate/teach religion to children, it's the parents job. That is the intent of the Establishment Clause, the wall of separation between church/religion and state.
                  I really don't care. Saying a little prayer or having the Ten Commandments posted never hurt anyone, and may help...And again the Constitution says nothing about a wall of separation. And again a teacher led prayer is NOT congress making a LAW.
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    It isn't about the kids.
                    Yes, it is.

                    Christian kids, I'm sure, participate in the science, math, and chess clubs as well. It's about government sponsership of a religion.
                    That's none of your business --- where there is a freedom to have student-led clubs, the government cannot prohibit them from exercising their first amendment rights.

                    That sounds fair, I think, just so long as it is student run and has nothing to do with the school, (other than a space,) the staff or the curriculum. But I see problems down the road should the school get involved in any way.
                    Because you're an anti-Christian bigot.

                    Hope you don't complain when the student clubs demanding school space are muslim or atheist.
                    I'm not the bigot you are.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      The SCOTUS disagrees with you concerning the intent of the law, and so do I.
                      This will be yet another opportunity to fail to provide a cite.
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post
                        I really don't care. Saying a little prayer or having the Ten Commandments posted never hurt anyone, and may help...And again the Constitution says nothing about a wall of separation. And again a teacher led prayer is NOT congress making a LAW.
                        As long as if you can maintain that same attitude if the prayer is to Allah, or some Hindu deity, or the Bhudda, then what you say makes sense. But once you limit what kinds of prayers can be said, then the government is, in fact, picking which religions will be state supported, and that violates the establishment clause.

                        Jim
                        He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                        "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                          The SCOTUS disagrees with you concerning the intent of the law, and so do I.
                          The Supreme Court was wrong. Notice their decision was not based on the Constitution itself or any other legal writing or precedent but on a phrase plucked out of context from a private correspondence. Here's what George Washington had to say to the Delaware Indian chiefs:

                          You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life and above all—the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise intention; and to tie the knot of friendship and union so fast—that nothing shall ever be able to loose it.

                          https://founders.archives.gov/docume.../03-20-02-0388

                          It is extremely unlikely that he misunderstood the intent of the First Amendment considering he was one of the key figures responsible for drafting the US Constitution. It is plainly obvious to any intellectually honest person that our Founding Fathers did not believe in or enforce any modern notion of "separation of church and state".
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
                            Would you say the same if it were a Muslim teacher choosing to begin class with muslim prayers?
                            I already answered that when you asked a similar question earlier in the thread.

                            http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post669948
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by seer View Post
                              ...having the Ten Commandments posted never hurt anyone...
                              As Jerry Falwell once said, "Why are liberals opposed to the Ten Commandments posted in a courtroom? Are they afraid that someone might read them, take them to heart, and repent?"
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                The Supreme Court was wrong. Notice their decision was not based on the Constitution itself or any other legal writing or precedent but on a phrase plucked out of context from a private correspondence. Here's what George Washington had to say to the Delaware Indian chiefs:

                                You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life and above all—the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise intention; and to tie the knot of friendship and union so fast—that nothing shall ever be able to loose it.
                                https://founders.archives.gov/docume.../03-20-02-0388
                                Notice that your decision was not based on the Constitution itself, but a phrase plucked out of context from a private correspondence! That's what the SCOTUS does, they try to interpret the intent of the Founders which is not always perfectly clear in the document itself.

                                It is extremely unlikely that he misunderstood the intent of the First Amendment considering he was one of the key figures responsible for drafting the US Constitution. It is plainly obvious to any intellectually honest person that our Founding Fathers did not believe in or enforce any modern notion of "separation of church and state".
                                Again, the SCOTUS disagrees with you, and so do I. But even if Founders didn't believe in the separation of church and state, I would still believe in the concept.

                                Comment

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