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  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    And you use the personal opinion of a dead guy,
    Numerous Baptist leaders and commentators of the day, actually, many of whom I have previously linked including W. Barry Garrett: “The U.S. Supreme Court, in a 7-2 decision that overturned a Texas law which denied a woman the right of abortion except to save her life, has advanced the cause of religious liberty, human equality and justice”.

    He went on to say: “There is no official Southern Baptist position on abortion, or any other such question.

    http://media.sbhla.org.s3.amazonaws....1-Jan-1973.pdf

    In short, abortion was NOT initially a major issue for the religious right...that came later.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      Numerous Baptist leaders and commentators of the day, actually, many of whom I have previously linked including W. Barry Garrett: “The U.S. Supreme Court, in a 7-2 decision that overturned a Texas law which denied a woman the right of abortion except to save her life, has advanced the cause of religious liberty, human equality and justice”.

      He went on to say: “There is no official Southern Baptist position on abortion, or any other such question.

      http://media.sbhla.org.s3.amazonaws....1-Jan-1973.pdf

      In short, abortion was NOT initially a major issue for the religious right...that came later.
      It became a major issue when SCOTUS created a new right out of thin air using really bad legal process and made Abortion on Demand "the law of the land".

      And, yeah, I remember your drama queen attempt to elevate Garrett to some incredibly important official spokesperson for the Southern Baptists even though he was just a bureau chief, like you falsely represented Criswell as the two term President of the Southern Baptist Convention "at the time of the ruling".

      If you actually have a point, why is it necessary for you to routinely and grossly misrepresent the positions of people from whom you cherry pick quotes?

      Wally's family thanks you for not misrepresenting him in this post.
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        If the science of biology actually lent itself to anti-abortion viewpoints, wouldn't you expect the strongest anti-abortion advocates to be biologists? Instead what we seem to see is its US right-wing Christians who are anti-abortion, and the scientists in the world are perfectly fine with abortion in general.

        In my current job, most of the scientists I'm working with are biologists (it's not my own scientific background, so I'm learning lots from them). From comments I've heard them make at lunch when the conversation turns to random subjects, the majority of the biologists seem to find anti-abortion views somewhere between hilarious and idiotic. I've never heard any of them express support for anti-abortion views. I've certainly never heard of the idea that biological scientists as a whole thought their science lent anti-abortion views any sort of credence.
        I’m sure you’re just as aware as I am that not all scientist are the same. What is their field of research? Are any of them involved in fetal development research? I had to go see an MD who specializes in Maternal-Fetal Medicine. He has a pro life stance and worked very hard on trying to prevent the death of our unborn daughter he couldn’t and was heartbroken about it. So who shall I trust? People starlight claims agree with him Or a doctor whose is a fetal development specialist?

        It's kinda weird you seem to seriously and really believe that the science is on your side on this issue. I suspect is a case of extreme wishful thinking on your part. I think most biological scientists would fall over laughing if you seriously told them straight-faced that modern biological science proved the anti-abortion viewpoint.
        So they would laugh an an MD, with multiple degrees and a speciality in fetal development and medicine? How entertaining. Do any of them hold a speciality in fetal development?

        BTW how common are those conditions in the GP?
        Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 10-28-2019, 08:11 AM.
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          They'd have to compete with former abortionists.
          I like how he mentions biologist, but doesn’t mention their speciality. Are their fields anything related to fetal development?
          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

          Comment









          • abortion rights.jpg
            Nazis thought it was their right to kill Jews

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
              I like how he mentions biologist, but doesn’t mention their speciality. Are their fields anything related to fetal development?

              Recent Poll Reveals 95 Percent of Biologists Say Human Life Begins at Conception


              Here's some of the insane "logic" of Blackmun...

              In writing his majority opinion in Roe v. Wade in 1973, Associate Justice Harry Blackmun complained that neither he nor any of the experts in the field of medicine, philosophy, or theology knew when life began, and so he developed an extra-legal theory — a “right to privacy” — that permitted him and a majority of the Supreme Court to rule that abortion was constitutional. Wrote Blackmun:
              We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, in this point in the development of man’s knowledge, is not in a position to speculate as to the answer.


              Yet, contrary to Blackmun's uninformed assumption...

              How would Blackmun (who died in 1999) and his majority supporters rule if they knew then that 95 percent of 5,500 biologists — with specialties ranging from anatomy, biochemistry, cellular biology, genetics, and physiology — believe that “a human’s life begins at fertilization”?

              What if they knew that of those biologists, even those who are “very pro-choice,” “very liberal,” and consider themselves to be “strong Democrats” believe life begins at conception?

              That is the result of a study conducted by Ph.D. candidate Steven Andrew Jacobs in the Department of Comparative Human Development at the University of Chicago. Published in academic circles a year ago, it is now coming to light in what could well turn out to be a tipping point in the abortion controversy.


              So the pro-abortion crowd has to switch the argument from "when life begins" to "that's not really human life" or "that's not a human being" or "it's not recognized as a human being until brain development" or anything else that supports their culture of death.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                Having grown up myself in a church where abortion wasn't an issue, it still baffles me as to why evangelicals in the US are so focused on abortion. It's not as if it's even in the bible at all. Whereas at least on the topic of homosexuality they've got a tiny handful of biblical references that are often taken as referring to the subject. Their religious fanaticism for a completely non-biblical topic is really bizarre.
                Considering the source, I don’t care what you think.
                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  Recent Poll Reveals 95 Percent of Biologists Say Human Life Begins at Conception


                  Here's some of the insane "logic" of Blackmun...

                  In writing his majority opinion in Roe v. Wade in 1973, Associate Justice Harry Blackmun complained that neither he nor any of the experts in the field of medicine, philosophy, or theology knew when life began, and so he developed an extra-legal theory — a “right to privacy” — that permitted him and a majority of the Supreme Court to rule that abortion was constitutional. Wrote Blackmun:
                  We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, in this point in the development of man’s knowledge, is not in a position to speculate as to the answer.


                  Yet, contrary to Blackmun's uninformed assumption...

                  How would Blackmun (who died in 1999) and his majority supporters rule if they knew then that 95 percent of 5,500 biologists — with specialties ranging from anatomy, biochemistry, cellular biology, genetics, and physiology — believe that “a human’s life begins at fertilization”?

                  What if they knew that of those biologists, even those who are “very pro-choice,” “very liberal,” and consider themselves to be “strong Democrats” believe life begins at conception?

                  That is the result of a study conducted by Ph.D. candidate Steven Andrew Jacobs in the Department of Comparative Human Development at the University of Chicago. Published in academic circles a year ago, it is now coming to light in what could well turn out to be a tipping point in the abortion controversy.


                  So the pro-abortion crowd has to switch the argument from "when life begins" to "that's not really human life" or "that's not a human being" or "it's not recognized as a human being until brain development" or anything else that supports their culture of death.
                  It’s about muddling up the waters. He talks about biologist that he works with agree with him, but:

                  1. We tend to feel comfortable with those that share our views. It could very well be only those that share in his political views will express them, to him, while others may keep it to themselves. Classic confirmation biasness.
                  2. We are not told what their field of study is in. Do they have much to do with fetal development?
                  "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                  GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                    It’s about muddling up the waters. He talks about biologist that he works with agree with him, but:

                    1. We tend to feel comfortable with those that share our views. It could very well be only those that share in his political views will express them, to him, while others may keep it to themselves. Classic confirmation biasness.
                    2. We are not told what their field of study is in. Do they have much to do with fetal development?
                    Ecology (ecologists) is a branch of biology.

                    Botany (botanists) is a branch of biology.

                    Without more specificity star's statement is in effect useless.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Ecology (ecologists) is a branch of biology.

                      Botany (botanists) is a branch of biology.

                      Without more specificity star's statement is in effect useless.
                      Pretty much, which is why I brought up the MFM I saw. His team and him deals with fetal development everyday. If anyone would be in the position to know the details of fetal development, it would be an MFM specialist. I always got a very strong, “it’s a baby” vibe from him for the two pregnancies I had to see him and not once did he ever say the word “abortion”. I have no doubt there’s times it is necessary, but most of the time it really isn’t.
                      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post


                        This is a (typical) CP misrepresentation.
                        And, again, you seem to be totally ignorant of the meaning of the word "typical".

                        FACT: You grossly overstated Crisswell's importance to the matter, and falsely stated he was President of the Southern Baptist Convention at the time of the ruling. NOT TRUE. That, Tass, is only one misrepresentation.

                        My argument is based upon the fact that until 50 years ago your church, now virulently anti-abortion, was largely indifferent to it.
                        Unfortunately, in your maniacal prosecution of the Southern Baptist Convention, you seem incapable of keeping the FACTS straight.

                        When I accuse you of misrepresentation, I back it up with proof. When you accuse me of misrepresentation, it's just typical Tassmanian dramaqueenery.

                        But, hey, that's all ya got.
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          Having grown up myself in a church where abortion wasn't an issue, it still baffles me as to why evangelicals in the US are so focused on abortion. It's not as if it's even in the bible at all. Whereas at least on the topic of homosexuality they've got a tiny handful of biblical references that are often taken as referring to the subject. Their religious fanaticism for a completely non-biblical topic is really bizarre.
                          Is there a verse that says "thou shalt not commit abortion"?

                          Is there biblical basis to show that God considers unborn children incredibly important?
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Is there a verse that says "thou shalt not commit abortion"?

                            Is there biblical basis to show that God considers unborn children incredibly important?
                            Apparently many of the Southern Baptists interpret those verses in a different way.

                            Three in 10 Southern Baptists say abortion should be legal in most circumstances, according to a recent survey by the Pew Research Center.

                            Overall, 61% of white evangelical Protestants oppose abortion rights, which is actually down from 70% in 2017. To put that number in context, far more white evangelicals (76%) supported President Trump's ban on immigrants from seven Muslim-majority countries. https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/23/p...ama/index.html
                            "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                              Apparently many of the Southern Baptists interpret those verses in a different way.
                              Many Southern Baptists don't like grits.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                Many Southern Baptists don't like grits.
                                Don't they all eat grits and marry their sisters?
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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