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  • #16
    And how do y'all say it pejoratively when we regularly hear "freedom of religion" arguments about how Christians shouldn't have to abide by a variety of laws and/or get carve-outs by virtue of their religious beliefs?

    What was -Hobby Lobby- but a sop to those who want to "remain isolated with their own culture and even laws", even as their beliefs are shown to be factually erroneous?

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" ó Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      So you're going to personally pay for any and all assistance to be rendered, is that it?
      Nope. But I will give my share. And I am a part of a society in which I pay my taxes and am asked to vote for politicians based on their ideas, ideals and practices. If you want to reduce that to "using somebody else's money" then any sick person going to the hospital, someone who is sick and cannot work or an old person taken care of is using "somebody else's money" in my country.

      Anyway, I never got an answer to why benefit would be your main concern when helping others? Why was it more important to focus on my person than answering that question?
      "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And itís an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Sam View Post
        And how do y'all say it pejoratively when we regularly hear "freedom of religion" arguments about how Christians shouldn't have to abide by a variety of laws and/or get carve-outs by virtue of their religious beliefs?
        You are pointing to yet another area in which basic fundamental ideas and ideals that have been held in high esteem are forgotten or no longer held by those who would traditionally support them. It is shocking to see how little it takes for so many to just give up their ideals as soon as there is a price to pay. And they don't seem to realize that the greates threat to our culture and values is if we give up our own ideals.

        I am often remined of the words of Bruce Springsteen (no fan):

        I got God on my side
        And I'm just trying to survive
        What if what you do to survive
        Kills the things you love
        Fear's a powerful thing, baby
        It can turn your heart black you can trust
        It'll take your God filled soul
        And fill it with devils and dust
        https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/bruc...evilsdust.html
        "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And itís an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Sam View Post
          And how do y'all say it pejoratively when we regularly hear "freedom of religion" arguments about how Christians shouldn't have to abide by a variety of laws and/or get carve-outs by virtue of their religious beliefs?
          What "variety of laws" are we fighting, Sam?

          What was -Hobby Lobby- but a sop to those who want to "remain isolated with their own culture and even laws", even as their beliefs are shown to be factually erroneous?

          --Sam
          All of that was within the structure of our laws, Sam.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since youíve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?Ē

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Charles View Post
            Nope. But I will give my share.
            What is that, exactly?
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since youíve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?Ē

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              I give it a generation before Europe resembles the Middle East.
              Based on?
              "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And itís an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                What is that, exactly?
                That is a completely private thing. And whether it is much or little does not make any difference to the point made. Why so focused on my person?

                Matthew 6:1
                Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And itís an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Charles View Post
                  Is this the most important question to ask when confronted with people in need? Ideally you don't help others for your own benefit.
                  And what is that doing to the countries in question?
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    What "variety of laws" are we fighting, Sam?
                    The entire nature of RFRA laws are built around creating religious exceptions to generally-applicable law.

                    We don't hear how Roman Catholics like Rod Dreher are "failing to assimilate", even when they're talking about radical isolation from mainstream culture. Sohrab Ahmari just had a debate with David French where he articulated that USA needs to take a pretty radical theocratic Christianist turn ... but I just didn't hear any complaints about his failure to integrate with society.


                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    All of that was within the structure of our laws, Sam.
                    No, it wasn't. That's why it went to SCOTUS and that's why SCOTUS had to invent a new form of corporate personhood, for the first time holding that a company could have religious scruples by virtue of its owners, so long as that company is "closely held".

                    But things look different when we're the beneficiary, I'll grant.

                    --Sam
                    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" ó Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Unlike millions of others who have come to America, for example, to "be Americans" -- like my Nigerian friends.
                      Right like my three friends from Jamaica, all Christian BTW. They have all assimilated well.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sam View Post
                        What ethnic migration study shows this?

                        --Sam
                        An analysis of surveys conducted among Muslim migrants in Europe shows that the majority of them value sharia law over national law and believe in the supremacy of Islam over other religions, according to Gatestone Institute.

                        Citing a recent study done by Ednan Aslan, professor of Islamic Religious Education at the University of Vienna, the Institute reported that for more than 51 percent of the interviewees, the supremacy of Islam over other religions is undisputed, and 55 percent believe in hell for unbelievers.

                        Aslan interviewed a sample of 288 of the roughly 4,000 predominantly Afghan asylum seekers in the Austrian city of Graz, on behalf of the city's integration department.

                        Another 2016 study in the U.K. showed that 43 percent of British Muslims "believed that parts of the Islamic legal system should replace British law while only 22 percent opposed the idea," the Institute highlighted.

                        https://www.christianpost.com/news/m...-analysis.html
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          An analysis of surveys conducted among Muslim migrants in Europe shows that the majority of them value sharia law over national law and believe in the supremacy of Islam over other religions, according to Gatestone Institute.

                          Citing a recent study done by Ednan Aslan, professor of Islamic Religious Education at the University of Vienna, the Institute reported that for more than 51 percent of the interviewees, the supremacy of Islam over other religions is undisputed, and 55 percent believe in hell for unbelievers.

                          Aslan interviewed a sample of 288 of the roughly 4,000 predominantly Afghan asylum seekers in the Austrian city of Graz, on behalf of the city's integration department.

                          Another 2016 study in the U.K. showed that 43 percent of British Muslims "believed that parts of the Islamic legal system should replace British law while only 22 percent opposed the idea," the Institute highlighted.

                          https://www.christianpost.com/news/m...-analysis.html
                          "Citing a recent study done by Ednan Aslan, professor of Islamic Religious Education at the University of Vienna, the Institute reported that for more than 51 percent of the interviewees, the supremacy of Islam over other religions is undisputed, and 55 percent believe in hell for unbelievers."

                          Wow, these people would never fit in here in America!

                          Without even bothering about the sourcing, can you seriously not see how easily you could replace the labels here with "white Evangelicals"?

                          --Sam
                          "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" ó Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sam View Post
                            What ethnic migration study shows this?

                            --Sam
                            I'm looking at results like neighborhoods where Sharia law is enforced

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              I'm looking at results like neighborhoods where Sharia law is enforced
                              Which neighborhoods and how would you determine the chain of causation?

                              Scientifically, don't you recognize the massive assumptions inherent in your method?

                              --Sam
                              "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" ó Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sam View Post
                                Which neighborhoods and how would you determine the chain of causation?

                                Scientifically, don't you recognize the massive assumptions inherent in your method?

                                --Sam
                                Are you being deliberately obtuse?

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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