Trump the Needler

[Teallaura]

This kind of illustrates my point. He's told so many nominally inconsequential lies at this point in time (like the size of his inauguration parades, etc.) that nobody pays any attention anymore, and that even his supporters shrug their shoulders that the behavior has been normalized. Letting instances like this just go because "it's no big deal" just exacerbates the problem. Meanwhile, we still have a president who remains unable to be trusted to accurately communicate anything. We need better.

It's no deal at all. He was called a liar when he didn't lie. You're just looking for fault - this nitpicking is why no one takes the outrage seriously anymore. He could bomb Russia and I doubt most would believe either the media or the anti-Trump crowd at this point.

You can have better in 2024 - I want the only real shot we've had to end Roe stay and do that job. Besides, there's nothing of substance in the Dem field excepting maybe Williamson and Gabbard.


Felonious Sharpie - good grief.

[myth]

Yes - I still think Christy did the right thing and that going off the deep end at the little stuff (hint: humans will get things wrong) distracts from the stuff that matters. Obama was a terrible president - but the beer summit was kinda cool - owning his screw up did impress me.

This is still the stupidest controversy ever. It's like Trump can't do enough actually messed up to satisfy the haters.

I do agree that Obama trying to make good on the beer summit thing was a good thing, if that's his actual motivation. I was a cop when that happened, and his administrations complete lack of support and antagonistic attitude towards LEOs in general would have given me pause. I remarked to my family at the time, that if Obama singled me out with those comments and then invited me to have a beer, I don't believe I'd have gone. There'd be nothing to really talk about, and I wouldn't have wanted to give him the positive PR over the issue. If he wanted to have a beer without advertising I was there, I'd have been game.

[Sam]

There was no map that included a small hump over to AL on the cone but Trump has far greater legal issues to worry about.

The main problem here -- beyond Trump's inability to understand a map or keep up-to-date with hurricane projections (supposedly the reason he canceled his Poland trip), or admit a small screw-up -- is how the White House is compelling federal agencies to backtrack and cover for his mistake. Now NOAA is getting into the mess by releasing an unattributed statement that NWS was wrong to correct Trump about Alabama getting hit "hard" on Sept. 1 because earlier maps showed a small chance (<10%) that some of AL would see tropical storm-force winds.

That's a big deal and it mirror's Trump's earlier attempts to get the Park Service to cover for his false claim about inauguration crowds and his obstructive attempt to get Don McGahn to create a false record. The President should not be directing agencies and employees to create what they know to be false or misleading statements.

--Sam

[Teallaura]

Even if I granted the legal side for the sake of argument, isn't it problematic that he still portrayed that as the current map, and with plenty of national attention on the issue by this point, thought it was more important to prove he was right than to actually make sure the most current, accurate information was out there?

Should he pretend he was mistaken when he repeated what he'd been told in a briefing? Does that clarify? He was explaining a statement he'd made - that's not disseminating false information. In context, he was clear - no one is responsible for others refusing to actually listen.

And you've never explained the heck out of something someone misconstrued in an argument? You don't take a fraction of the flack he does - but he's not allowed to defend himself and you are?

The whole thing is moronic. The out of date briefing, the argument and the controversy.

[KingsGambit]

This is still the stupidest controversy ever. It's like Trump can't do enough actually messed up to satisfy the haters.

This kind of illustrates my point. He's told so many nominally inconsequential lies at this point in time (like the size of his inauguration parades, etc.) that nobody pays any attention anymore, and that even his supporters shrug their shoulders that the behavior has been normalized. Letting instances like this just go because "it's no big deal" just exacerbates the problem. Meanwhile, we still have a president who remains unable to be trusted to accurately communicate anything. We need better.

[myth]

We didn't get distracted, or panic. We Alabamians have enough sense to look up the local weather.

Please read more carefully. You're completely ignoring my actual concern.

My concern is about the information being BROADCAST by the media, not the public's ability to interpret it. The public's ability to interpret information is not generally impressive, but that's another argument (and one which I have so far said nothing at all about in this thread).

[Teallaura]

I think it's problematic when the President of the United States cannot be trusted to accurately communicate information, yes. This particular issue isn't consequential in the long run, but the notion that he is willing to use his office to communicate obvious falsehoods and will not correct them even in the face of overwhelming evidence certainly matters.

(And be honest with yourself. Would you be downplaying it to this extent had Obama altered a map?)

Yes - I still think Christy did the right thing and that going off the deep end at the little stuff (hint: humans will get things wrong) distracts from the stuff that matters. Obama was a terrible president - but the beer summit was kinda cool - owning his screw up did impress me.

This is still the stupidest controversy ever. It's like Trump can't do enough actually messed up to satisfy the haters.

[KingsGambit]

Whoever drew on it was imitating an earlier map - there's literally no rational way to make that into an attempt to commit fraud.

Even if I granted the legal side for the sake of argument, isn't it problematic that he still portrayed that as the current map, and with plenty of national attention on the issue by this point, thought it was more important to prove he was right than to actually make sure the most current, accurate information was out there?

[Teallaura]

Also Teal....I'm a southerner, born and bred.Still live in the south, and my state is currently experiencing the impact of Dorian.

We didn't get distracted, or panic. We Alabamians have enough sense to look up the local weather.

[KingsGambit]

You and Sam were just discussing a serious issue that is a valid criticism as a freaking side note. But you think Sharpiegate matters?!

I think it's problematic when the President of the United States cannot be trusted to accurately communicate information, yes. This particular issue isn't consequential in the long run, but the notion that he is willing to use his office to communicate obvious falsehoods and will not correct them even in the face of overwhelming evidence certainly matters.

(And be honest with yourself. Would you be downplaying it to this extent had Obama altered a map?)

[myth]

I know you mean well - but you're still calling us all morons. No one looks to the president for weather reports - and no agency is so screwed up that they don't know who to call for an update - and it's not the WH.

Right.

So...let me give an exaggerated scenario to illustrate my concern. Let's say I live in a flood plain on the outer fringes of the area impacted by a hurricane. Everything looks like our area will be fine, and I know about the hurricane, but I'm not playing close attention to news because it's not gonna hit us. Suddenly, all my usual sources of media spend 95% of their time reporting on the price of crayons in China. I don't know that I should check the forecast, or that the forecast models have changed and my home is now threatened with flooding. The media reports this information, but only in passing and I don't see that -- because they're focusing on crayons and not the storm. Am I stupid to not know what's going on, or is it possible that some irresponsible person prodded the media to loose focus on the issue that's important to me?

I know I'm exaggerating here, and I really hope that no one lost their lives or homes because of this media hoopla. I get that it's unlikely to, because local media would HOPEFULLY be focused on the storm. But we live in age were people don't often watch local TV or radio (I don't have cable or own a regular radio that's not in my car). With national media sources focused on Trumps false Tweets as he refused to admit a mistake or offer accurate information in rebuttal.....the possibility exists. I'm praying no one was harmed because of our President's narcissism.

[Teallaura]

No, the map he showed was a later map issued with the Alabama part visually added in a different tone - with one aide confirming it was his handwriting.

It's not a stupid controversy. Altering a weather map is a federal offense. Weren't you just arguing in the other thread that the rule of law requires prosecution of crimes?

Stupidly interpreting the law also undermines it - altering a map for official release (the ones the law concerns) is not the same thing as drawing on an official map. No one - totally irrespective of the DOJ's finding - would EVER be prosecuted for taking a sharpie to a map like that. That's not what the law is about.

Whoever drew on it was imitating an earlier map - there's literally no rational way to make that into an attempt to commit fraud.

You and Sam were just discussing a serious issue that is a valid criticism as a freaking side note. But you think Sharpiegate matters?!

[myth]

Also Teal....I'm a southerner, born and bred.Still live in the south, and my state is currently experiencing the impact of Dorian.

[KingsGambit]

I know you mean well - but you're still calling us all morons. No one looks to the president for weather reports - and no agency is so screwed up that they don't know who to call for an update - and it's not the WH.

I don't see anything in myth's post that implies anything about people in Alabama in particular. In fact, IIRC, he is from the Deep South himself.

[Teallaura]

Teallaura, I didn't imply that anyone other than Trump was a moron. His initial Tweet isn't what offends me, it's his subsequent follow-up tweets that were even more inaccurate. He has an inability to keep his mount shut (and speak the truth). And this lead to distraction in the media about something that wouldn't have been an issue if he hadn't made it one. My concern is that the distraction of the press during such a major disaster has potentially serious consequences....not because people can't watch the news, but because if the news isn't accurately reporting information in a timely manner, people may not even have access to that information.

I know you mean well - but you're still calling us all morons. No one looks to the president for weather reports - and no agency is so screwed up that they don't know who to call for an update - and it's not the WH.