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NYT - Trump Administration Considers a Drastic Cut in Refugees Allowed to Enter

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  • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    No it isn't. It is an economic and social decision that the government must weigh for the best of the nation first. We aee under no international obligation to be the world's charity worker. Sorry if you think that is callous, but a secular government is under no obligation to satisfy your whining.



    And there are a myriad of reasons to deny them. A secular government must weigh the good and bad for each position, and ultimately side with the good.of their own people first. That YOU consider their decision immoral is not their problem.



    This is again irrelivant. This is a SECULAR NATION!!!!


    which is their right to do, and has sufficient secular reasons for doing so. You just refuse to see any other side than what you are blinded by.



    No. They have made the decision based on their secular reasoning and have crafted policy based on that. We can't save the entire world. I can live with the consequences of that. I can't help that you can't.
    And what, exactly, are the administration's reasons for zeroing out refugee resettlement?

    Have you even sought that out?

    Do you even care to?

    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      I have never invoked the name of Trump, nor do I serve him as a master. As usual, your self-righteous condemnation misses its mark.
      You support trump and his policies more tgan any other person on this board.

      And in this case (and many others) you support his policies even though they violate core Christian principles.

      Jim
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
        For you to equate the murder of the unborn with refugees shows what little footing you have to stand on. You would side with actual murderers of the innocent over an objection on who should care for refugees. Pathetic at its core.
        This is a ridiculous distortion of sams words. His statements point out the hypocrisy of caring for one and not the other. You act like he's putting a different value on them, but the reality is it is you that is putting a different value on them.

        That is the point.

        What you need to consider is what it means to care about one and not the other. They are both applications of the same basic principle - to look out for the innocent, to care for the poor and the helpless

        Jim
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
          Obviously not. Your opinion does not a fact make.



          So was Dredd Scott. Both were wrong. One has been fixed. The other remains.



          Not even close to the same thing. Your SUPPORT for pre-20 week abortion law is anti-Christian.



          Yet you bring scripture in to the legal realm. That's your problem. As you've continually ignored, this is NOT a theocracy. Period.


          Then make a tax argument, not a scriptural one.



          Exactly. Even the Lord knew to make a secular argument to a secular problem. Go ye therefore and do the same.



          Your moral posturing won't work. The Lord NEVER told us to force authorities to bend to our morality. We can disagree from a moral standpoint, but forcing our morals on others is the most anti-Christian behavior we can make...
          Sam is not talking about forcing the government's hand. He talking about lending support to the goverment's hand when it is doing something immoral.

          Given the context, lets put it in basic, stark terms

          It is just as immoral to support trumps cutback on refugies as it would be to support the unhindered legalized abortion of third trimester unborn babies.

          In fact, it is just as immoral as supporting post birth abortion. Because it condemns many innocent men women and children to death that under the original pooicy would have lived


          Jim
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            You support trump and his policies more tgan any other person on this board.

            And in this case (and many others) you support his policies even though they violate core Christian principles.

            Jim
            I don't care what level of support you think I exhibit. I have never invoked the name of Trump, nor do I serve him. There is no conflict in my thinking.

            And I disagree with you that this policy violates core Christian principles, just like I don't think it violates core Christian principles that the government doesn't force citizens to pay a tithe to their local church, or make it a law to study and meditate on scripture, or make it illegal not to forgive one another. In fact, the Bible says absolutely nothing about how a government should be run. So if the government decided to end, say, welfare programs, this would not violate scripture.

            As long as the government isn't violating basic human rights then I'm fine with whatever policies it implements. And, no, denying refugees access to the US violates no basic human rights.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              I don't care what level of support you think I exhibit. I have never invoked the name of Trump, nor do I serve him. There is no conflict in my thinking.
              There are massive conflicts in you thinking


              And I disagree with you that this policy violates core Christian principles, just like I don't think it violates core Christian principles that the government doesn't force citizens to pay a tithe to their local church, or make it a law to study and meditate on scripture, or make it illegal not to forgive one another. In fact, the Bible says absolutely nothing about how a government should be run. So if the government decided to end, say, welfare programs, this would not violate scripture.
              Wrong again. Or, to illustrate the error - then you should have no problems at all with the government defining human life as beginning at birth, or legalizing same-sex marriage?


              As long as the government isn't violating basic human rights then I'm fine with whatever policies it implements. And, no, denying refugees access to the US violates no basic human rights.
              Yes it does, and in many cases the most basic of all rights - The right to life.


              Jim
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                There are massive conflicts in you thinking




                Wrong again. Or, to illustrate the error - then you should have no problems at all with the government defining human life as beginning at birth, or legalizing same-sex marriage?




                Yes it does, and in many cases the most basic of all rights - The right to life.


                Jim
                "The Bible says absolutely nothing about how a government should be run."

                Do you have an answer to this? The government is under no obligation to act as a Christian charity or fulfill the function of the church.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  "The Bible says absolutely nothing about how a government should be run."

                  Do you have an answer to this? The government is under no obligation to act as a Christian charity or fulfill the function of the church.
                  This has been answered fully: the resettlement of refugees is not a strictly Christian pursuit.

                  Neither you, nor Bill, nor anyone else has made an endeavor to show how refugee resettlement conflicts with the public good, let alone such that the government would be reasonable in zeroing out resettlement.

                  You're hiding prejudice behind a strawman.

                  --Sam
                  "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    "The Bible says absolutely nothing about how a government should be run."

                    Do you have an answer to this? The government is under no obligation to act as a Christian charity or fulfill the function of the church.
                    I answered you, but you are not willing to understand the answer.

                    To add to sam's reply, the bible has much to say about the christian church's obligation to the poor and needy. And jesus says what we do to the poor and needy, we do to Him. So if we support our government's policy to abandon those fleeing death and destruction, we are abandoning Jesus as He flees death and destruction.

                    Jim
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                      Neither you, nor Bill, nor anyone else has made an endeavor to show how refugee resettlement conflicts with the public good, let alone such that the government would be reasonable in zeroing out resettlement.
                      If that's the debate you wished to have then perhaps that's how you should have started the thread instead of quoting scripture and then self-righteously brow beating anybody who didn't agree with your application of it.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        If that's the debate you wished to have then perhaps that's how you should have started the thread instead of quoting scripture and then self-righteously brow beating anybody who didn't agree with your application of it.
                        It's not the debate I want to have; it's the smokescreen response you and Bill came up with to avoid the implications of providing support to a deeply anti-Christian policy being implemented by supposedly Christian politicians.

                        --Sam
                        "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          To add to sam's reply, the bible has much to say about the christian church's obligation to the poor and needy. And jesus says what we do to the poor and needy, we do to Him.
                          Right, but the Bible says nothing about the government having an obligation to do good works on our behalf.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                            ...deeply anti-Christian policy...
                            And this is where the disagreement lies. I don't think it's "deeply anti-Christian" because the Bible says absolutely nothing about how governments should deal with refugees.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Right, but the Bible says nothing about the government having an obligation to do good works on our behalf
                              I never said anything about the governments obligations per se. That is your pitiful attemp to excuse your support of these policies. I have only been speaking about the immorality of the policy itsel from the perspective of Christ's words and what that implies about our capacity to lend our support to such policies without violating Christ's teachings.

                              However, since we live in a democratic republic and we have the capacity to influence the policies of our government, we not only have a responsibility to speak out against such policies, we have a responsibility to do what we can to change them.

                              Jim
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                And this is where the disagreement lies. I don't think it's "deeply anti-Christian" because the Bible says absolutely nothing about how governments should deal with refugees.
                                If you don't believe that Christian men in not only a position to establish refugee admission rates but the position to establish refugee admission rates are acting contrary to Christian faith in zeroing them out, then that's a problem with your understanding of the faith.

                                You're not arguing, there, that extenuating civic responsibilities are outweighing their Christian obligation. You're arguing that no such obligation exists because they're "in government".

                                And, as pointed out repeatedly, you're doing it as a means of special pleading because you definitely do not apply that same logic on other matters.


                                --Sam
                                "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                                Comment

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