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Barry Laughs At Everyone But Himself
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It's a proven liar that he's a factBetter to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.
-Thomas Aquinas
I love to travel, But hate to arrive.
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What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostHow original.
According to the publisher that was a mistake (as you tacidly admit), so between a hypothesis that says that both the publisher and Obama are colluding in a conspiracy, and merely the publisher making a mistake, Occam's razor has that we should pick the one with where its just the publisher.
You talk more or less like an afterbirther. The way a typical 9/11 truther talks is like this "I don't know if the towers were really brought down by explosives... I'm just saying its weird that they fell down straight, and the government didn't let us examine the rubble and that its really crazy that a small group of people with a low education could hijack all those planes. And notice how conveniently this attack started a war... you can't say the military-industrial complex didn't have some powerful interests in starting this."
The evidence is massively, unidirectionally against him having been born on anything other than US soil. It quickly became so, and after that it just grew stronger.
At the start of the kerfuffle there was the slightest, thinnest ray of hope that this might just possible be true against all hope. It was already extremely improbable, because Obama would have to had basically gambled that he could hide his birthplace during the campaign and throughout his presidency.
Then Hawaii stated that the birth records showed that he originated there. The conspiracy should have died. This is all it would have taken to kill it. Somehow it didn't though, but that's usually the case with conspiracy theories. Then the short form of the birth certificate was shown. Still not enough, though this was a gratuitous amount of evidence. Conservatives on this forum were still speculating that he was born in Kenya, and doing it in the typical conspiracy tones "There's something odd about it... he's hiding something. He might be born in Kenya... or something else."
Then the long-form was released, and there were still people claiming it was odd. Wrong colour. After that it slowly died out, with a hardcore clinging to the notion that he hasn't shown us pictures from his childhood. If those were shown I'm sure they'd claim that they were obviously photoshopped.
There is a process that conspiracy theorists go through which is called anomaly hunting. Rather than seeing the big picture of where the evidence is going, they nitpick in minute details until some anomaly emerges that doesn't admit of an immediate explanation, and then they use this to call the rest into question. To a 9/11 truther, it might be that one of the windows of the Twin Towers suddenly exploded as it collapsed. There are hundreds of explanations of how this could happen, the lack of which does not support that it was brought down by explosives. The long form was on green paper rather than white, again this does not support a massive conspiracy between the Hawaiian government and Obama.
Its conspiracy nonsense, it was popular mainly with the conservatives who used it as a hope that Obama could be taken down from presidency even before his term had come to an end. It stopped being interesting to Democrats when he won the candidacy.
I can understand this desire, at least from the perspective of abortion and birth control, but I'm sorry, there's really no other rational thing to believe than that Obama is a US citizen, however bad a president he might be."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostOccam's razor does not apply because their claim that it was an error is so unlikely that it can be dismissed outright. The idea that Obama told them he was born in Kenya rather than that they made a "fact checking error" where they ask Obama where he was born, he says Hawaii and they hear Kenya then fail to fix it for years until it just so happens that Obama runs for president is not the most simple explanation, because it's not an explanation at all. It's a lie,
If you have evidence show me, if not then admit it and put your tail between your legs. And then accept that the OP is bunk. It is right and just to mock, ridicule and laugh at dumb or destructive things. The conservatives really had themselves fooled with this, and Donald Trump made a clown out of himself. I will laugh and chuckle at that for quite a while.
I'm sympathetic to those that just got caught up in the spirit of things. Those who aren't posting here because they know that they participated in this nonsense. If that's you Darth Ex, I'm sorry.
I'm against abortion now, that means that Obama is my enemy, but him being an enemy doesn't mean I have to attack him on anything and hold my hand over you conservatives any chance I get. You guys have participated in too much nonsense for me to take you seriously. I've yet to meet a conservative who could talk me into it, everyone I meet are anti-science, or anti-vax, or anti-health, or anti-education, or conspiracy mongerers.
...the type of obvious, absurd, poorly thought out lies only an utter imbecile would believe. No offense.
because I'm not, you know, a birther, despite your insistence to the contrary.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostAnd the evidence for this is...? I'm really waiting here Darth. The prior probability that he's made a mistake, and was too busy doing other things is always higher than that he lied. The posterior probability in the light of the fact that Obama has been known to spout falsehoods is higher relative to other politicians, but is still generally lower absolutely than the hypothesis that it was a mistake and that Obama himself didn't fact check it.
If you have evidence show me, if not then admit it and put your tail between your legs. And then accept that the OP is bunk. It is right and just to mock, ridicule and laugh at dumb or destructive things. The conservatives really had themselves fooled with this, and Donald Trump made a clown out of himself. I will laugh and chuckle at that for quite a while.
I'm sympathetic to those that just got caught up in the spirit of things. Those who aren't posting here because they know that they participated in this nonsense. If that's you Darth Ex, I'm sorry.
I'm against abortion now, that means that Obama is my enemy, but him being an enemy doesn't mean I have to attack him on anything and hold my hand over you conservatives any chance I get. You guys have participated in too much nonsense for me to take you seriously. I've yet to meet a conservative who could talk me into it, everyone I meet are anti-science, or anti-vax, or anti-health, or anti-education, or conspiracy mongerers.
I'm sorry, you'll need to speak louder my ego is kinda hard of hearing. Besides stupidity doesn't offend me, you have a place in this world as well Darth Ex.
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... You insisted it was a legitimate position. In light of all the evidence that's been released it isn't.
I'm a little shocked at that, TBH. It sounds like a liberal talking point just meant to silence conservatives.I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostWow, that's...remarkably harsh. So every conservative that you've met is "anti-science, anti-vaccine, anti-health, anti-education, or a conspiracy monger," and we've all participated in so much nonsense that you can't take any of us seriously?
I'm a little shocked at that, TBH. It sounds like a liberal talking point just meant to silence conservatives.
I wish I was kidding. I talk to One Bad Pig, he denies just about all science if it conflicts with Economic Doctrine. All scientists are part of a grant gaining conspiracy, me included. I talk to DeeDee she rejects most science, if it doesn't relate to patents and technology. I talk to Nick Peters, he's antiscience on climate. I talk to them about whether Texas ought to control the science book industry, and I get free market propaganda. I talk to you guys on health and I get three libertarians with talking points about how vaccinations are evil and we should seek alternative treatments. Though thankfully a lot of conservatives here against vaccines. They just hate universal health care. A lot. Barely a decade ago it was all bitherism by every one, by every single conservative I talked to on this forum.
If you talked against birtherism you were an atheist, or a liberal, or a liberal atheist.
I wasn't being self selective. These were my friends, I chatted with many of them. I'm still baffled by it. I really am. If anyone was against birtherism back then please step forward. I don't mind being proven wrong.
But yes, coming to tweb to meet Christians I basically had to tell myself "Okay these are Americans. They hate anything more wellfare than Reagan, and more science than the patent office or IBM. That's just their political views. I'll have to ignore that in order to talk to them about Christ."
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Originally posted by Leontard View PostAnd the evidence for this is...?
I'm really waiting here Darth. The prior probability that he's made a mistake, and was too busy doing other things is always higher than that he lied. The posterior probability in the light of the fact that Obama has been known to spout falsehoods is higher relative to other politicians, but is still generally lower absolutely than the hypothesis that it was a mistake and that Obama himself didn't fact check it.
If you have evidence show me
Leontard: Duhhh, seems more plausible that the poor man was set up somehow, if you have evidence sho*chokes on drool*
I'm sympathetic to those that just got caught up in the spirit of things. Those who aren't posting here because they know that they participated in this nonsense. If that's you Darth Ex, I'm sorry.
I'm against abortion now, that means that Obama is my enemy, but him being an enemy doesn't mean I have to attack him on anything and hold my hand over you conservatives any chance I get. You guys have participated in too much nonsense for me to take you seriously.
I've yet to meet a conservative who could talk me into it, everyone I meet are anti-science, or anti-vax, or anti-health, or anti-education, or conspiracy mongerers.
Anyway, at this point it's pretty obvious that you walked into a huge pile of crap without having realized that Obama himself was complicit in perpetrating the birther myth when it suited him, and you are now desperately trying to save face by pretending his publisher "fact checked" simple information it would take them a few seconds to confirm from the guy they were talking to by stopping random truck drivers to ask them where Obama was really born (or something). I am determined not to let you weasel your way out of this and continue to humiliate you for your stubbornness in accepting obvious lies whenever I get the chance."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostYou forgot the 'or'. I've yet to meet a synthesis of all conservative nonsense, but maybe that's Darth Ex or Epo. They seem to be everything, though Epo goes one step further and is an open racist and hates women, and jews.
I wish I was kidding. I talk to One Bad Pig, he denies just about all science if it conflicts with Economic Doctrine. All scientists are part of a grant gaining conspiracy, me included. I talk to DeeDee she rejects most science, if it doesn't relate to patents and technology. I talk to Nick Peters, he's antiscience on climate. I talk to them about whether Texas ought to control the science book industry, and I get free market propaganda. I talk to you guys on health and I get three libertarians with talking points about how vaccinations are evil and we should seek alternative treatments. Though thankfully a lot of conservatives here against vaccines. They just hate universal health care. A lot. Barely a decade ago it was all bitherism by every one, by every single conservative I talked to on this forum.
If you talked against birtherism you were an atheist, or a liberal, or a liberal atheist.
I wasn't being self selective. These were my friends, I chatted with many of them. I'm still baffled by it. I really am. If anyone was against birtherism back then please step forward. I don't mind being proven wrong.
But yes, coming to tweb to meet Christians I basically had to tell myself "Okay these are Americans. They hate anything more wellfare than Reagan, and more science than the patent office or IBM. That's just their political views. I'll have to ignore that in order to talk to them about Christ."
I am just a conservative, after all.I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostOk. You seem to have an extremely negative view of American conservatives, but whatever. Maybe it'd be best if I don't discuss anything political with you in the future.
I am just a conservative, after all.
How many times do you get accused of being a government leech, who's participating in a conspiracy out of incompentency? This goes as regular stuff here. One Bad Pig repeats it just about every chance he gets, no reprimand and no apology. He litterally doesn't care.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI'm sympathetic to being proven wrong Zymologist. I really am. I don't mind having a conversation about it, but this birther nonsense from Darth Ex brought up all the problems I've had on this forum with this stuff.
How many times do you get accused of being a government leech, who's participating in a conspiracy out of incompentency? This goes as regular stuff here. One Bad Pig repeats it just about every chance he gets, no reprimand and no apology. He litterally doesn't care.
Sometimes I get really sick of Civics. Politics, how I hate thee.I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostNot often, but I (and all the other conservatives) seem to be quite regularly accused of racism, sexism, bigotry, and of course the nice little list you had. But apparently that's ok, because we're just conservatives.
Sometimes I get really sick of Civics. Politics, how I hate thee.
If you're on board with climate change, I'm sorry, if you believe science education should reflect science, I'm sorry, if you weren't on the birtherism bandwagon by either saying it was reasonable (like Darth Ex does) or by saying it outright (think Donald Trump), I'm sorry, if you were for vaccines, I'm sorry.
Anti-science is part of the course. Most of the conservatives here do reject science on a lot of issues, pollution science because it means coal plants have to be careful of where they dump their sludge, or maybe because restrictions have to be made to industries and conservative policies can't really deal with that. Climate change, because the invisible hand of the market means that the climate can't change, or something like that...
And yes me and many other get routinely accused of the very worst crimes against integrity for doing our best to figure out how the world works, and the world simple not liking what our measurements show. That's being done all the time, and no conservative on this forum seems to care.
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I made a minor mistake I meant to write "Though thankfully a lot of conservatives here are for vaccines" I hope that clear from context, otherwise I'd assert the point and then write 'Though thankfully...' and then give the same point again.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI've only accused Epo of being a racist. He'll probably rush in here and agree. I've never accused anyone else of it. Nor of bigotry. Only the things I've encountered here Zymologist.
If you're on board with climate change, I'm sorry, if you believe science education should reflect science, I'm sorry, if you weren't on the birtherism bandwagon by either saying it was reasonable (like Darth Ex does) or by saying it outright (think Donald Trump), I'm sorry, if you were for vaccines, I'm sorry.
Anti-science is part of the course. Most of the conservatives here do reject science on a lot of issues, pollution science because it means coal plants have to be careful of where they dump their sludge, or maybe because restrictions have to be made to industries and conservative policies can't really deal with that. Climate change, because the invisible hand of the market means that the climate can't change, or something like that...
And yes me and many other get routinely accused of the very worst crimes against integrity for doing our best to figure out how the world works, and the world simple not liking what our measurements show. That's being done all the time, and no conservative on this forum seems to care.
This is getting ridiculous. If you don't see how what you wrote comes across as rather rude, then I'm not sure what else to say.
I'm also a little bit annoyed at how conservatives who "got on the birtherism bandwagon" but who subsequently changed their minds have no credibility with you. How would this be different than us not taking you seriously because you used to support abortion?
I really don't know why this is irritating me so much. Maybe because it's coming from a brother? I don't know.
And as for your very last comment, conservatives are accused of racism all the time because we're just doing what we think is best (e.g., opposing welfare, which is apparently an extremist and stupid position to hold), and no liberal on this forum seems to care. So we're both guilty, eh?
ETA: FWIW, Leon, we are brothers in Christ, and so have far more in common than not. (Amen?) I'm sorry I got so wound up here; I have thinner skin than I ought.Last edited by Zymologist; 05-14-2014, 03:31 PM.I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostAnd as for your very last comment, conservatives are accused of racism all the time because we're just doing what we think is best (e.g., opposing welfare, which is apparently an extremist and stupid position to hold), and no liberal on this forum seems to care. So we're both guilty, eh?I'm not here anymore.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI talk to One Bad Pig, he denies just about all science if it conflicts with Economic Doctrine. All scientists are part of a grant gaining conspiracy, me included.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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