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The irony of the New York Times’ 1619 Project...

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  • Updating, mostly for my own future record, the Twitter discussion between Seth Rockman and Pseudoerasmus from before.
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sam View Post
      Who among us can forget those Buddy-Moses Pharisees and their notorious disregard for purity laws in their zealous pursuit of social justice and advocacy for the poor and marginalized?
      Is that what you think you're doing?
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        No, you just openly question whether or not Christian Trump supporters are living consistently with our faith, which effectively amounts to the same thing.
        1) that is not what I question. I question if it is consistent for a Christian to support many of the thing TRUMP IS DOING.

        2) It is NOT the same thing. First we are saved by grace, not by works. Second, we are commanded that if we see a BROTHER in sin to go to him, to call it out. So when I question if supporting something Trump is doing is consistent with Christian faith I am doing no less than I am commanded to do by scripture itself.

        Jim
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          I'm certain the pharisees didn't think they deserved to be called out either.
          And I notice you've not bothered to check the physician heal thyself reference either ... or did you intend to paint yourself as the pharisee?

          Jim
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Adding a working paper from Olmstead and Rhode critical of New History of Capitalism claims surrounding cotton production & slavery.
            "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              And I notice you've not bothered to check the physician heal thyself reference either ... or did you intend to paint yourself as the pharisee?

              Jim
              You do know the saying predates the New Testament, right?
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                1) that is not what I question. I question if it is consistent for a Christian to support many of the thing TRUMP IS DOING.
                No, you question whether it is consistent for a Christian to support certain policies that you happen to disagree with.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  No, you question whether it is consistent for a Christian to support certain policies that you happen to disagree with.
                  I can see why you would like to change the question. The question whether "it is consistent for a Christian to support many of the thing TRUMP IS DOING." is a lot harder to answer and it seems you could not or would not answer it. That, however, says a lot in itself.
                  "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                  Comment


                  • A worthwhile article for those who decided (before reading all the essays, I think) that there's nothing "new" in the 1619 Project's account of US history in regards to slavery and exploitation. The fact is that history, as taught in America, is pretty lousy with giving a good overview of the things historians know and often gets caught up (by accident or intent) in nostalgia and mythology.

                    "How is slavery taught in America? Schools struggle to teach it well". Joe Heim. The Washington Post. 2019.08.28.
                    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Chuckles View Post
                      I can see why you would like to change the question. The question whether "it is consistent for a Christian to support many of the thing TRUMP IS DOING." is a lot harder to answer and it seems you could not or would not answer it. That, however, says a lot in itself.
                      Nope... there is a big, big difference between what Trump is doing, and what his critics say he is doing.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sam View Post
                        n. The fact is that history, as taught in America, is pretty lousy with giving a good overview of the things historians know and often gets caught up (by accident or intent) in nostalgia and mythology.
                        "Texas board votes to eliminate Hillary Clinton from history curriculum"



                        They really should keep her in, a great example of power lust and corruption.
                        Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          You do know the saying predates the New Testament, right?
                          Yes ... but the only NT reference is of Jesus rebuking the pharisees for wanting to use it against him ...
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            No, you question whether it is consistent for a Christian to support certain policies that you happen to disagree with.
                            And which are clearly condemned in scripture as I understand the scripture and what Trump is doing. There certainly can be room for debate as to whether my assessment of their incompatibility with scripture is correct.

                            The major point being, im not questioning anyone's actual commitjent to Christ. I'm questioning people's understanding of the implications of supporting what Trump is doing on that committment.


                            Jim
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Nope... there is a big, big difference between what Trump SAYS he is doing, and what his critics say he is doing.
                              FIFYNC

                              And this has always been the case with autocratic or power thirsty personalities.

                              And it is why freedom of the press is absolutely critical to preserving any free or democratic form of government.

                              Jim
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                Nope... there is a big, big difference between what Trump is doing, and what his critics say he is doing.
                                That should not prevent you from answering even if that is true. Thank you for providing further evidence that Ox's question is not easily answered. I predict we will not get a serious answer.
                                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                                Comment

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