Mass Shooting El Paso...

[Bill the Cat]

More correftly, Manson was the inspiration for the White Album.

Wrong.

But it doesn't really matter as it relates to this specific discussion. We can also ask if 'The Matrix' contributed to Columbine. Exposure to violence is an issue, but not the issue I am addressing.

We KNOW that when we feed paranoia it will provoke more people to act on their fears. Trump IS the POTUS and he is feeding, even creating, irrational fear at each rally, and with a significant percentage of his tweets. And he bears the resposibility of the consequences of his decision to use that sort of fear to protect or grow his power and security in the office of POTUS when the specific elements of fear he has stoked are the stated reasons for a violent event like these shootings.

Jim

Bologna, Jim. Just plain bologna. As proofed by Manson and people like him, paranoia will be fed regardless of intent of the speaker. Trump is not "feeding paranoia" any more than the Beatles.

[oxmixmudd]

I don't think so.

Oops, sorry. At this point my memory of the correlation between manson and the white album has apparently gotten fuzzy. But the actual correlation (took a little wikipedia refresher) makes BTC's question completely irrelavent.

The shooter wasnt acting on imagined 'hidden' references, he was acting on the direct and literal meaning of Trump's words.

Jim

[Bill the Cat]

Oops, sorry. At this point my memory of the correlation between manson and the white album has apparently gotten fuzzy. But the actual correlation (took a little wikipedia refresher) makes BTC's question completely irrelavent.

The shooter wasnt acting on imagined 'hidden' references, he was acting on the direct and literal meaning of Trump's words.

Jim

No he wasn't.

[oxmixmudd]

Wrong.





Bologna, Jim. Just plain bologna. As proofed by Manson and people like him, paranoia will be fed regardless of intent of the speaker. Trump is not "feeding paranoia" any more than the Beatles.

I misremeberred the correlation and assumed your question had a different implication than it did.

Your last comment is pure naivete. History has shown over and over the consequences of leaders feeding paranoia and fear in the masses. And the fact I innacurately remembered the manson/beatles correlation has nothing to do with the correctness of that fact.

Jim

[Bill the Cat]

I misremeberred the correlation and assumed your question had a different implication than it did.

Your last comment is pure naivete. History has shown over and over the consequences of leaders feeding paranoia and fear in the masses. And the fact I innacurately remembered the manson/beatles correlation has nothing to do with the correctness of that fact.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

You cant escape the reality of what happens when leaders feed paranoia by invoking personal attack BTC. In fact, it simply shows you have no valid or objective means to back up your assertion. There are entire books written that discuss the use of fear and paranoia by leaders to secure their positions of power or to invoke genocide and other gross misapplications of power. Trumps use of that mechanism for his own purposes is irresponsible, and will tend to produce the sorts of responses seen in this shooter.

https://www.amazon.com/Paranoia-Luig.../dp/1138673668

Source: review of the above

"

© Copyright Original Source

Jim

[Bill the Cat]

You cant escape the reality of what happens when leaders feed paranoia by invoking personal attack BTC.

Unless you can show a single instance where Trump specifically encourages someone to murder Mexicans, then you have absolutely nothing except your distorted lenses and TrumpOCD filtering your own paranoia.

In fact, it simply shoes you have no valid or objective means to back up your assertion. There are entire chapters in world history books written that discuss the use of fear and paranoia by leaders to secure their positions of power

Jim

And you are making a baseless assumption that Trump is using paranoia using nothing more than your proven lack of objectivity.

[oxmixmudd]

Unless you can show a single instance where Trump specifically encourages someone to murder Mexicans, then you have absolutely nothing except your distorted lenses and TrumpOCD filtering your own paranoia.

No, Trump does not have to tell a person to go kill a mexican to be using paranoia in his rhetoric against immigrants or for that rhetoric to motivate someone already on edge over the issue to go on a shooting spree. That is so absurd a statement it really doesn't even need to be pointed out, but hey, you said it, so I'm pointing out how absurd it is.

And you are making a baseless assumption that Trump is using paranoia using nothing more than your proven lack of objectivity.

No, this is just simple, objective fact. Trump IS using paranoia to motivate his base. He did it this weekend retweeting the Clinton Conspiracy nonsense in the Epstein suicide. He's done it in the past, including the conspiracy theory Obama was not actually a US citizen. It is one of Trump's defining characteristics. He uses fear and paranoia to motivate the people around him day in and day out. And he uses it constantly at his rallies. From "Fake news" to the "deep state" to the "Invasion from the south", it is all right there, fully documented, available to all to see.


Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

You cant escape the reality of what happens when leaders feed paranoia by invoking personal attack BTC. In fact, it simply shows you have no valid or objective means to back up your assertion. There are entire books written that discuss the use of fear and paranoia by leaders to secure their positions of power or to invoke genocide and other gross misapplications of power. Trumps use of that mechanism for his own purposes is irresponsible, and will tend to produce the sorts of responses seen in this shooter.

https://www.amazon.com/Paranoia-Luig.../dp/1138673668

Source: review of the above

"

© Copyright Original Source

Jim

By that logic the popular Avengers films inspired the shooting since both his goals and the goals of the main villain, was to reduce the population via extermination.

[lilpixieofterror]

No, this is just simple, objective fact. Trump IS using paranoia to motivate his base. He did it this weekend retweeting the Clinton Conspiracy nonsense in the Epstein suicide. He's done it in the past, including the conspiracy theory Obama was not actually a US citizen. It is one of Trump's defining characteristics. He uses fear and paranoia to motivate the people around him day in and day out. And he uses it constantly at his rallies. From "Fake news" to the "deep state" to the "Invasion from the south", it is all right there, fully documented, available to all to see.


Jim

[oxmixmudd]

By that logic the popular Avengers films inspired the shooting since both his goals and the goals of the main villain, was to reduce the population via extermination.

No - that would not be a logical conclusion at all.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

Denial of historical fact is not an argument. Trump IS using paranoia and fear as it relates to immigration. Fear and paranoia as regards immigrants was the shooter's motivation. Trump's use of that fear has consequences. This shooting was one of them. But by no means has it been, is it, or will it be the only consequence.

It is irresponsible and a dereliction of duty for any leader in this country to use paranoia and irrational fear, especially as Trump is using them, as part of their strategy to secure or retain power. This is a simple fact and it applies to anyone doing it. Though Trump's abuse of that element has the most reach, and is obscene in its scope (he has almost no regard for how dangerous it is to use that method to motivate people)

Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

No - that would not be a logical conclusion at all.

Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

Denial of historical fact is not an argument. Trump IS using paranoia and fear as it relates to immigration. Fear and paranoia as regards immigrants was the shooter's motivation. Trump's use of that fear has consequences. This shooting was one of them. But by no means has it been, is it, or will it be the only consequence.

It is irresponsible and a dereliction of duty for any leader in this country to use paranoia and irrational fear, especially as Trump is using them, as part of their strategy to secure or retain power. This is a simple fact and it applies to anyone doing it. Though Trump's abuse of that element has the most reach, and is obscene in its scope (he has almost no regard for how dangerous it is to use that method to motivate people)

Jim

[One Bad Pig]

Unless you can show a single instance where Trump specifically encourages someone to murder Mexicans, then you have absolutely nothing except your distorted lenses and TrumpOCD filtering your own paranoia.



And you are making a baseless assumption that Trump is using paranoia using nothing more than your proven lack of objectivity.

It's not worth the hassle, Bill. It's only going to raise your blood pressure and ensure your place on the list of those 'persecuting' him here.