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Is The Pope A Commie?

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  • Is The Pope A Commie?

    I really like Pope Francis, but he is sounding more and more like a socialist:


    VATICAN CITY (AP) -- Pope Francis called Friday for governments to redistribute wealth to the poor in a new spirit of generosity to help curb the "economy of exclusion" that is taking hold today.

    Francis made the appeal during a speech to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the heads of major U.N. agencies who met in Rome this week.

    Latin America's first pope has frequently lashed out at the injustices of capitalism and the global economic system that excludes so much of humanity, though his predecessors have voiced similar concerns.
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...05-09-06-31-28
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    I really like Pope Francis, but he is sounding more and more like a socialist:
    I don't know much about the history, but I speculate that Marxism actually borrowed a lot from Christian social policy. (Anyone who knows better please do correct me.)

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
      I don't know much about the history, but I speculate that Marxism actually borrowed a lot from Christian social policy. (Anyone who knows better please do correct me.)

      No, in christian theology giving is completely voluntary. The state does not force you to give.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        No, in christian theology giving is completely voluntary. The state does not force you to give.
        But in Christian theology you don't have workers aren't exploited by being paid incredibly low wages such that they live from hand to mouth. Keep in mind Francis is speaking in the global context, and not necessarily addressing the controversies of your country.

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        • #5
          By the way, you might want to read the script.

          Comment


          • #6
            Since Marx totally rejected religion and Christianity in particular ('opiate of the masses', remember?) it's highly unlikely he drew directly from Christian philosophy. Possibly unconsciously, but the case for that is tenuous.

            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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            • #7
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              No, in christian theology giving is completely voluntary. The state does not force you to give.
              The state forces a certain amount of taxation.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                But in Christian theology you don't have workers aren't exploited by being paid incredibly low wages such that they live from hand to mouth. Keep in mind Francis is speaking in the global context, and not necessarily addressing the controversies of your country.
                Pretty much every one in New Testament times lived from hand to mouth. I have no problem with people being paid well - like scripture says - a laborer is worth of his wages.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                  The state forces a certain amount of taxation.
                  But those funds don't have to go to social programs - defense is a state duty; unemployment insurance traditionally is not.

                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Pretty much every one in New Testament times lived from hand to mouth.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                      But those funds don't have to go to social programs - defense is a state duty; unemployment insurance traditionally is not.
                      I'm sorry? Did Francis speak about unemployment "insurance"? Or are you just projecting your own national context on his global message?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                        The state forces a certain amount of taxation.
                        Yes, the state does. You were asking about Christian theology.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          I really like Pope Francis, but he is sounding more and more like a socialist:
                          If you knew more about the history of his Holiness, I think you'd be a bit more careful about firing off as odious a title as what you gave this thread.

                          The Church rejects both free market economics and marxism as disordered. It proposes a balanced view, rules should be put in place that protect the weak and poor in society, and shows a preference for local production. Beyond this there's no clear political agenda.

                          Just because its not laissez faire economics, doesn't meant its Marxism.

                          No, in christian theology giving is completely voluntary. The state does not force you to give.
                          Its voluntary in the sense that its voluntary to follow God's law. However there's no Biblical mandate against what Francis is talking about. If there is, I want to see it.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Yes, the state does. You were asking about Christian theology.
                            If we are agreed that under general Christian social policy, the state uses force to ensure tax monies are collected, can you give a reason why some of it shouldn't be used to help the poor? Can you name any reason why this is bad in general, instead of just pointing out flaws in certain weath redistribution policies?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                              I'm sorry? Did Francis speak about unemployment "insurance"? Or are you just projecting your own national context on his global message?
                              It's called 'an example'. It merely represents a social policy. Traditionally, the state has been responsible for ensuring peace within and without its borders (threats domestic and foreign) and ensuring justice. It has not been responsible for ensuring economic well being beyond ensuring the peace that permits economic well being.

                              Are you always this testy when people answer your questions?

                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Comment

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