Will The Global Warming Hysterics Never Tire Of Being Wrong?

[firstfloor]

I think you need to have your doc dial down your meds about 3 notches.

Yes, ‘murdering Jesus’ is over the top. However, the Arctic is warming and shipping lanes are opening up, and there are huge gas reserve there, and the Russians are going after it, and the US military want a bigger base on Greenland, and Trump wanted a huge legacy (Trump Island). The big deal was discovered prematurely.

[Teallaura]

I looked it up, but it seems like it involves a small number of Tesla cars that had defective batteries. So instead of recalling them, an over-the-air update limited the charge ceiling for those cars.

Why is that bad? That seems very responsible, and in no way invalidates the graf that I sent which was specifically about the actual degradation of the physical battery, not its software settings.

Er, wouldn't the software settings affect the physical degradation? At least in the 'oopsie, too high' direction.

Why it is bad - the car was bought under the understanding it would perform within a set range - and it can't do that anymore. Kind of the reverse of a warranty but if the product is deliberately tampered with so that it no longer performs as the customer expected, that's criminal mischief at the very least but probably looking at an attempt to defraud - the price was based on the car's total characteristics which include battery performance.

Tesla tried to avoid an expensive recall with a bandaid - yeah, this is REALLY not okay!

[Teallaura]

Perhaps, but I am not talking to everyday people on TheologyWeb. I consider you all smarter than average; Able to the separate feelings and emotions, from rational arguments.

Fine - but this won't get anything actually done.

You mean why isn't there a runaway global warming? That's because there are also multiples of other negative feedback cycles. I don't know enough about the later stages of Milankovich cycles. I was merely responding to the claim that temperature change precedes CO2 change, which I think isn't completely true, and when its true it's irrelevant to our current situation.

Yep - I was just curious. Thanks!

Teal this is coming a bit out of left-field, I don't know much if anything about local conditions where you're at. As I state a little bit later (update: And I see you've quoted it later), I'm a moderate when it comes to the severity of climate changes. I believe they have the potential to be disruptive both to the biodiversity and conservation efforts, but also to the economy. I believe that actions should be taken that will be preventive. The whole calculus of what we should be doing is based around that.

We had been discussing it earlier - I think in this thread. But that was before you expounded your position.

I don't believe in a solution that's the same for everyone, everywhere. For instance, in previous climate threads, I've even advocated for the poorest countries to be allowed to use coal power to bootstrap their economies and improve their living conditions.

Fair enough.

As for the particular case of that plant, I don't know the particulars, or what policy was implemented. So it's difficult to discuss it. Plants that close is not something unique to changes in laws regarding pollution. Over a decade ago Germany pulled a car manufacturing plant out of Denmark. A whole town and city had grown up around that one manufacturing plant. After it closed it left a huge community without jobs, and now it's one of the places in Denmark with the highest rate of unemployment.

Actually, it's fairly new here - thanks to Obama.

It's hard to blame that one on Socialism though.

Would depend on the ultimate goal but I haven't a clue about that particular case.

[Leonhard]

I thought the story was that the coastal cities are going to be underwater soon if we don't do something?

I haven't seen any scientific reports about anything like that. Water rise yes, but they happen over a century.

[Leonhard]

Your data is out of date - Tesla is busily defending lawsuits over its 'update' that reduced battery efficiency to keep them from catching fire.

Yes, really.

I looked it up, but it seems like it involves a small number of Tesla cars that had defective batteries. So instead of recalling them, an over-the-air update limited the charge ceiling for those cars.

Why is that bad? That seems very responsible, and in no way invalidates the graf that I sent which was specifically about the actual degradation of the physical battery, not its software settings.

[Leonhard]

If you actually believe in this then you'd BETTER pay attention to 'pure politics' - because it's a political, not a scientific, decision as to whether a nation-state - or all of them - will act.

Perhaps, but I am not talking to everyday people on TheologyWeb. I consider you all smarter than average; Able to the separate feelings and emotions, from rational arguments.

(In response to my posts on milankovich cycles) So, why don't they keep going?

You mean why isn't there a runaway global warming? That's because there are also multiples of other negative feedback cycles. I don't know enough about the later stages of Milankovich cycles. I was merely responding to the claim that temperature change precedes CO2 change, which I think isn't completely true, and when its true it's irrelevant to our current situation.

In December 1500 people will lose their jobs - 83% of them Navajo. Their reservation will take a tremendous economic hit. But it's okay, because one isolated coal plant that has never failed to meet its environmental requirements will be shut down and ... what?

Teal this is coming a bit out of left-field, I don't know much if anything about local conditions where you're at. As I state a little bit later (update: And I see you've quoted it later), I'm a moderate when it comes to the severity of climate changes. I believe they have the potential to be disruptive both to the biodiversity and conservation efforts, but also to the economy. I believe that actions should be taken that will be preventive. The whole calculus of what we should be doing is based around that.

I don't believe in a solution that's the same for everyone, everywhere. For instance, in previous climate threads, I've even advocated for the poorest countries to be allowed to use coal power to bootstrap their economies and improve their living conditions.

As for the particular case of that plant, I don't know the particulars, or what policy was implemented. So it's difficult to discuss it. Plants that close is not something unique to changes in laws regarding pollution. Over a decade ago Germany pulled a car manufacturing plant out of Denmark. A whole town and city had grown up around that one manufacturing plant. After it closed it left a huge community without jobs, and now it's one of the places in Denmark with the highest rate of unemployment.

It's hard to blame that one on Socialism though.

[Teallaura]

That's the idea. After they've been of service in a car, they're still fairly good and can be used for other purposes, like replacing expensive peaker plants and other grid storage solutions.



Its a bit better than that, for most Tesla cars they have a range of 90% of their original range after 250000 miles. This is based upon crowdsourced data from multiple Tesla owners.

(https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-batt...-1-million-km/)

Your data is out of date - Tesla is busily defending lawsuits over its 'update' that reduced battery efficiency to keep them from catching fire.

Yes, really.

[Leonhard]

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "in service for many decades". If you're talking "many decades at a significantly reduced charge capacity" then you would be correct.

That's the idea. After they've been of service in a car, they're still fairly good and can be used for other purposes, like replacing expensive peaker plants and other grid storage solutions.

To give you an idea, Tesla warranties their batteries for 8-years but stipulates that reduced charge capacity as a result of normal use is not covered. As far as they're concerned, up to 30% reduced capacity is acceptable within the warranty period.

Its a bit better than that, for most Tesla cars they have a range of 90% of their original range after 250000 miles. This is based upon crowdsourced data from multiple Tesla owners.

(https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-batt...-1-million-km/)

[Cow Poke]

DiCaprio in particular loves to party on mega-yachts that consume massive amounts of fossil fuel -- several times more in an hour than what the average American uses in their car each year -- while pontificating on how we need to drastically cut back on use

As long as he's preaching climate change, I'm sure he'll get a pass from the True Followers.

[Cow Poke]

Ignorance is not a lack of intelligence, it is a lack of knowledge. Both of you are intelligent, but in the arena of global warming, both of you are callously repeatingvthe arguments of the ignorant rather than something more informed, and that is beneath both of you.

That was my point. Sorry you did not understand.

Jim

It was a joke.

[rogue06]

Doing their part to solve climate change.

A voyage on Rising Sun is summer’s "most coveted" vacation for A-listers with Oprah Winfrey, Chris Rock, Steven Spielberg, Leonardo DiCaprio and even Jeff Bezos popping up on the mogul’s Instagram feed.

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DiCaprio in particular loves to party on mega-yachts that consume massive amounts of fossil fuel -- several times more in an hour than what the average American uses in their car each year -- while pontificating on how we need to drastically cut back on use

[seer]

Doing their part to solve climate change.

A voyage on Rising Sun is summer’s "most coveted" vacation for A-listers with Oprah Winfrey, Chris Rock, Steven Spielberg, Leonardo DiCaprio and even Jeff Bezos popping up on the mogul’s Instagram feed.

one_time_use_only-yacht-alamy_h_2019.jpg

[oxmixmudd]

Oh, come on, Jim, I've never thought of you as ignorant!

Ignorance is not a lack of intelligence, it is a lack of knowledge. Both of you are intelligent, but in the arena of global warming, both of you are callously repeatingvthe arguments of the ignorant rather than something more informed, and that is beneath both of you.

That was my point. Sorry you did not understand.

Jim

[Cow Poke]

So - you and CP's mocking posts are the mocking of the ignorant.

Oh, come on, Jim, I've never thought of you as ignorant!

[Tassman]

I thought the story was that the coastal cities are going to be underwater soon if we don't do something?

Global warming is bringing irreversible ecosystem changes which will negatively affect all life on the planet.