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Argument against "Kill the fetus": Libertarian Walter Block

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  • Argument against "Kill the fetus": Libertarian Walter Block

    A libertarian by the name of Walter Block concluded that the mother has the right to kill the fetus in her womb even though he started with the assumption that the fetus is a person. He argued that the mother "owns her own body, and the unwanted fetus growing within it is in effect a trespasser or parasite." I would argue that if we grant, arguendo, that the fetus is to be regarded as a parasite or trespasser, killing it is an excessive remedy. If at night a homeowner hears a burglar in his living room, he might have the right to try to kill the burglar on the grounds that the burglar is a threat to his life or those of his family. But as long as the pregnancy appears to be healthy, the mother cannot plead defense of her life as a reason to kill it. Or consider a bank foreclosing on a family's house. Does the bank have the right to kill the family on the grounds that the family is trespassing? And note that there may be a civil procedure that the bank has to follow, such as asking the judge to grant the right to foreclose against the particular family and to appoint people who would evict the family if necessary. The mother of the unwanted fetus would be required to take time and be inconvenienced in carrying the fetus to birth, like the bank had to take time and be inconvenienced. Another thing. If a homeowner hears noise in the living room, he should issue a challenge, lest the suspected burglar be someone who simply was confused and lost. Of course one cannot argue that the fetus is confused and lost and also the fetus won't understand any challenge anyway. But surely the intent, or rather the lack of intent, on the part of the fetus should be taken into due consideration.
    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

    [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

  • #2
    Also, (in almost every case), the fetus was an invited guest.

    This is the same guy who inspired this post: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/ar...hp/t-1439.html
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #3
      In the examples you provide, there are options besides killing and not doing anything. When it comes to abortion those are the only two options.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm more and more thinking that my attempt in my earlier post to try to reason with Block's logic on his own terms is likely to fail, largely due to the objection of rape that it admittedly can't solve for (and which I would have to address on my own terms).
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          I'm more and more thinking that my attempt in my earlier post to try to reason with Block's logic on his own terms is likely to fail, largely due to the objection of rape that it admittedly can't solve for (and which I would have to address on my own terms).
          The objection of rape is pretty easily handled with minimal thought unless one is wishing to preclude abortion even in the event of rape and/or potential death of the mother. Statistically, few support such a position even among the pro-lifers.
          I'm not here anymore.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
            The objection of rape is pretty easily handled with minimal thought unless one is wishing to preclude abortion even in the event of rape and/or potential death of the mother.
            Why throw in death of the mother with rape, they're not even remotely similar (I and many others here oppose it in the case of rape too btw).
            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
              Why throw in death of the mother with rape, they're not even remotely similar (I and many others here oppose it in the case of rape too btw).
              They are the two primary objections to a strict "no abortion ever" stance. The reasoning for both can fall under the same basic idea, though they can certainly be argued along different lines. That is really up to the individual and the underlying premises they accept.

              That many others here oppose abortion in cases of rape doesn't detract from the fact that it is very much a minority position even among pro-lifers. I seem to remember something like 15%, but I don't recall for certain, and I don't care enough to look it up since it really isn't that important. I pointed it out merely to illustrate that precluding cases of rape and death of the mother don't really need to be defended against.
              Last edited by Carrikature; 05-06-2014, 11:02 PM.
              I'm not here anymore.

              Comment


              • #8
                As far as the Big Three Abortion exceptions go, I tend to think this way:

                1. Imminent danger to mother's life: Should be her choice.
                2. Rape: Should be the husband's choice.
                3. Incest: Should be the choice of the parents, assuming they aren't the guilty party.

                Basically, them what bear the most responsibility must make the decisions.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                  Why throw in death of the mother with rape, they're not even remotely similar (I and many others here oppose it in the case of rape too btw).
                  What would you say if you were raped and pregnant? Try to ignore the obvious problem with that scenario.
                  “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                  “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                  “not all there” - you know who you are

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                    What would you say if you were raped and pregnant? Try to ignore the obvious problem with that scenario.
                    So what you are saying is that for example if your dad was a complete asshat who beat your mom or was a criminal who robbed banks, then that makes it OK for you to be killed since you are no better than he is. Right?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                      What would you say if you were raped and pregnant? Try to ignore the obvious problem with that scenario.
                      Ouch?
                      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                        What would you say if you were raped and pregnant? Try to ignore the obvious problem with that scenario.
                        "I'm going to make millions on the talk show circuit?"

                        But seriously, the husband is the primarily victimized party in that scenario.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          So what you are saying is that for example if your dad was a complete asshat who beat your mom or was a criminal who robbed banks, then that makes it OK for you to be killed since you are no better than he is. Right?
                          That is a fairly obvious misrepresentation of the issue so I hope you don’t mind if I ignore it.
                          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                          “not all there” - you know who you are

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                            That is a fairly obvious misrepresentation of the issue so I hope you don’t mind if I ignore it.
                            Translation: Well crap, I didn't expect to lose this early.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Epoetker View Post
                              "I'm going to make millions on the talk show circuit?"

                              But seriously, the husband is the primarily victimized party in that scenario.
                              The baby can be easily given up for adoption, so no, not really.

                              Out of curiosity though, how many married women get raped compared to unmarried ones? I'd imagine most rapes involve young, unmarried women.
                              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                              Comment

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