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400+ prosecutors sign a letter noting POTUS absent DOJ policy not to indict POTUS

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  • He specifically stated that “it did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this Office’s work and conclusions,” and that as a result, “There is now public confusion about critical aspects of the results of our investigation.” And that “This threatens to undermine a central purpose for which the [Justice] Department appointed the Special Counsel: to assure full public confidence in the outcome of the investigations,”
    Which parts of Barr's summary have created confusion and been used to throw doubt on the outcomes of the inquiry? Which parts demonstrate internal (to the summary) ambiguity? According to Mueller's complaint, not capturing full substance etc. resulted in public confusion.
    Last edited by tabibito; 05-12-2019, 01:21 AM.
    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Does it matter? You're all reading from the same script.
      As opposed to those reading from the Fox/Breitbart script, you mean.
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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      • I think Mueller and Barr's opinions on the obstruction question are impacted by several factors:

        1) The DOJ opinion that a sitting president cannot be indicted.

        2) The unique position of the President. Normally, when a suspect obstructs an investigation, they are not in a position which creates such plausible deniability. As the chief of the executive branch, President Trump has authority over the people who were investigating him. So he can take action against the investigation and couch the actions in legitimate plausible deniability of any desire to obstruct a criminal investigation. He can claim he took actions for some other legitimate reason, and they wouldn't be illegal because of a lack of criminal intent.

        3) The issue is so polarizing, I'd guess there's a 50/50 chance at conviction. A potential trial would largely hinge on which specific jurors get selected.

        4) Federal prosecutors, in my experience, don't proceed with cases that aren't a slam dunk (consider their conviction rate is like 99%+). 50/50 chance of conviction is NOT a slam dunk. I can't imagine any federal prosecutors that want to be the person who failed to convict a sitting president of a felony. Say good-bye to that cushy, post-government law firm partnership. Their career would be toast.
        "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

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        • Originally posted by myth View Post
          I think Mueller and Barr's opinions on the obstruction question are impacted by several factors:

          1) The DOJ opinion that a sitting president cannot be indicted.
          Nope. Barr explicitly said in his letter to Congress that this played no part in his and Rosenstein's analysis of Mueller's case.

          Originally posted by myth View Post
          2) The unique position of the President. Normally, when a suspect obstructs an investigation, they are not in a position which creates such plausible deniability. As the chief of the executive branch, President Trump has authority over the people who were investigating him. So he can take action against the investigation and couch the actions in legitimate plausible deniability of any desire to obstruct a criminal investigation. He can claim he took actions for some other legitimate reason, and they wouldn't be illegal because of a lack of criminal intent.

          3) The issue is so polarizing, I'd guess there's a 50/50 chance at conviction. A potential trial would largely hinge on which specific jurors get selected.

          4) Federal prosecutors, in my experience, don't proceed with cases that aren't a slam dunk (consider their conviction rate is like 99%+). 50/50 chance of conviction is NOT a slam dunk. I can't imagine any federal prosecutors that want to be the person who failed to convict a sitting president of a felony. Say good-bye to that cushy, post-government law firm partnership. Their career would be toast.
          Another factor mentioned by Barr during his testimony is that we know for a fact that Trump and his campaign were falsely accused, meaning that every one of Trump's actions were those of an innocent man, and it would be extremely difficult to prove that an innocent man was acting with corrupt intent.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Nope. Barr explicitly said in his letter to Congress that this played no part in his and Rosenstein's analysis of Mueller's case.
            Barr has every motivation to be slightly misleading, and it in fact appears that he was less than 100% honest to congress during his testimony. So I don't much care that he specifically said otherwise. Also, I meant these statements to apply to Barr and Mueller. Even if Barr didn't consider it, I believe Mueller did.

            Another factor mentioned by Barr during his testimony is that we know for a fact that Trump and his campaign were falsely accused, meaning that every one of Trump's actions were those of an innocent man, and it would be extremely difficult to prove that an innocent man was acting with corrupt intent.
            Indeed. There are many who would argue against charging someone for obstructing a criminal case when it turns out there was no originally crime to begin with. Even if you can do so (I understand that opinions differ on that), it has the stink of vindictiveness....like, "Well, there's no original crime but let's jam him up on this technicality since we're so dead set on charging him".
            "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

            Comment


            • Originally posted by myth View Post
              Barr has every motivation to be slightly misleading...
              No he doesn't.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                No he doesn't.
                Keeping his job isn't motivation? Look what happened to certain people...like a previous AG and FBI director. And...a ton of other administration officials. In Trump's administration, if you don't tow the party line, you get axed.
                "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                Comment


                • Apparently none of the heroic 400 are people known to Jonathan Turley.
                  Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                  Beige Nationalist.

                  "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                  Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                    Apparently none of the heroic 400 are people known to Jonathan Turley.
                    Well Turley is one. Just 399 of the "heroic" prosecutes to go.
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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