A Guy Beat, Raped, Shot, and Buried Alive a 19 Year Old Girl. Guess Who's The Victim?

[lilpixieofterror]

Revenge and retribution have no place in enlightened societies; it lowers the practitioners to the level of the criminal perpetrators and desensitizes the population to cruelty – as demonstrated by your own insensitive and blasé attitude to his botched death.

Begging the question much?

Interesting that the US is the ONLY western country that still practices capital punishment! It is in company with the likes of Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Botswana, Indonesia, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Syria, Uzbekistan, and Yemen – not exactly a cross-section of the more enlightened nations.

More of that snobbery there Tazzy Wazzy? Most of those countries also have far lower crime rates too and are you saying you're culture is better than theirs? Well, so much for that multiculturalism philosophy, eh?

It’s interesting also that the majority of those executed in the US are from racial and ethnic minorities and from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, indicating that society is at fault to some degree for placing such people at a disadvantage in the first place.

Oh yeah because it is societies fault that this guy went out beat, raped, shot, and burred a young women alive. Funny, I learned that I am responsible for my own actions and I shouldn't blame others for my own choices. Did you not learn that Tazzy?

Certainly, society needs to be protected from violent and anti-social individuals, but incarceration and attempted rehabilitation is more civilized than state-sanctioned, premeditated killing. Such a brutal practice reduces the US states that practice it to the level of the fundamentalist Muslim countries and their imposition of Sharia Law.

Perhaps you can explain how prisons have become a revolving door where repeat offenders come back after they do their time. I guess you'd want to let off somebody who beat, rapped, shot, and buried a 19 year old women alive out of prison? Sorry Tazzy Wazzy, but I do have a little girl and I'd rather she be safe from rapist and murders than they being released into the public so they could commit their crimes yet again to make people like you feel good about 'rehabilitating' them (which seems to be failing, thus far). How many young women would this guy had to kill before you would have decided he needed to be kept out of the public forever?

[lilpixieofterror]

Well, many of them do make just that argument. Besides seanD, cruel and unusual punishment is unconstitutional.

And how does one define 'cruel and unusual' punishment Jimmy?

[Bill the Cat]

Revenge and retribution have no place in enlightened societies;

I could not disagree more.

[Bill the Cat]

Well, many of them do make just that argument. Besides seanD, cruel and unusual punishment is unconstitutional.

Well, the ones who put "cruel and unusual punishment" in the constitution had no problem with the death penalty. In fact, the most popular types of executions when the country was founded were 1) Hanging, 2) Breaking on the wheel. and 3) Firing squad.

[Darth Executor]

Revenge and retribution have no place in enlightened societies;

Revenge and retribution have a place in any society that wants to call itself a society.

it lowers the practitioners to the level of the criminal perpetrators

That you think punishment of crime lowers one to the level of the perpetrator shows far more about you and the diseased liberal type of thinking where everybody is equal and thus nobody can be good or evil regardless of circumstances.

and desensitizes the population to cruelty – as demonstrated by your own insensitive and blasé attitude to his botched death.

Funny you would say that, liberal pathological treachery and disregard for anything resembling good and evil (except homophobia and rayciss'm) has done far more to desensitize me to cruelty than the capital punishment.

Interesting that the US is the ONLY western country that still practices capital punishment! It is in company with the likes of Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Botswana, Indonesia, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Syria, Uzbekistan, and Yemen – not exactly a cross-section of the more enlightened nations.

I would beg to differ. All those countries are more enlightened than US liberals, for the simple reason that they follow both their own ideologies and what should be optimal aethist ideology better than dysgenic, genetic dead ends like western liberals. The Archfiends of Progress really pulled a number on you, not only getting you to behave in the stupidest way possible, but also making you think your suicidal behavior is "enlightened".

It’s interesting also that the majority of those executed in the US are from racial and ethnic minorities and from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, indicating that society is at fault to some degree for placing such people at a disadvantage in the first place.

Yes it's very interesting. This is a result of certain minorities engaging in anti-social behavior like savage rapes and murders at grossly disproportionate rates. Clearly this is the fault of some evil cracker who mind controlled the poor minority into violently penetrating the screaming victim's orifices then shooting and burying her alive. I know that when I'm missing a little pocket change, a little rape and murder fills up dat chedda account right up.

Certainly, society needs to be protected from violent and anti-social individuals, but incarceration and attempted rehabilitation is more civilized than state-sanctioned, premeditated killing. Such a brutal practice reduces the US states that practice it to the level of the fundamentalist Muslim countries and their imposition of Sharia Law.

Fundamentalist Muslim countries are full of savage barbarians, so they have to stomp down hard to maintain order. Western countries (with the exception of the US) are largely not full of savage barbarians, though liberals are trying their hardest to import them from other countries. Liberals could use some proper Sharia in their lives though. Used to be that the Church and State did that job but they've both been rather guilty of gross dereliction of duty as of late.

[Darth Executor]

Causing people pain with no beneficial aspect to it, is. Torture for vital information about terrorist attacks can be justified. Torturing someone you're just going to execute anyway, for no reason, isn't.

Pretty sure a guy convulsing painfully for 40 minutes would improve its value as a deterrent.

[JimL]

And how does one define 'cruel and unusual' punishment Jimmy?

Wow, is that really a difficult one for you to fathom Lilpix? I wouldn't think you'd need to, but if so you can look it up in the dictionary and it should give you a pretty good definition.

[Bill the Cat]

Wow, is that really a difficult one for you to fathom Lilpix? I wouldn't think you'd need to, but if so you can look it up in the dictionary and it should give you a pretty good definition.

How about finding out what the guys who actually WROTE the clause had in mind instead?

[lilpixieofterror]

Wow, is that really a difficult one for you to fathom Lilpix? I wouldn't think you'd need to, but if so you can look it up in the dictionary and it should give you a pretty good definition.

I know what the terms mean Jimmy. I want to see you define what you mean by 'cruel and unusual punishment'.

[Teallaura]

The State's job is to protect the public and ensure justice. It is NOT the State's job to match cruelty for cruelty, hence the 'cruel and unusual' punishment clause. The events are distinct - and just because the criminal is a sadist doesn't mean that the rest of us have to be - or should be.

If the death penalty cannot be administered humanely then it is unconstitutional and will be ended again - so advocates should be very concerned that this execution went so badly. I personally oppose the death penalty as a huge waste of money, time and resources with the added possibility of unjustifiable error (no, it really isn't okay to accidentally put the innocent to death) - but I think the case for immorality is weak as heck.

I suspect the idiots on my side of the fence that keep pressuring drug companies and doctors not to assist are possibly responsible for this travesty. No matter what the guy did, it doesn't justify screwing up his execution - if you have to waste that much money at least do it right - and trying to stop executions through such indirect means will result in greater, unjustifiable suffering. Those of us who oppose the idiot thing need to fight it out in the legislatures and the courts and quit trying to do an end run when the consequences hurt the very people you are trying to keep alive (in my case - preferably in a cage permanently).

[ke7ejx]

Well, the ones who put "cruel and unusual punishment" in the constitution had no problem with the death penalty. In fact, the most popular types of executions when the country was founded were 1) Hanging, 2) Breaking on the wheel. and 3) Firing squad.

Well, if people are so fired up about lethal injection, maybe hanging should come back. Do it Pierrepoint style and they won't feel a thing...

[seer]

Do it Pierrepoint style and they won't feel a thing...

Yes Pierrepoint was a master at his trade.

[Darth Executor]

The State's job is to protect the public and ensure justice. It is NOT the State's job to match cruelty for cruelty, hence the 'cruel and unusual' punishment clause. The events are distinct - and just because the criminal is a sadist doesn't mean that the rest of us have to be - or should be.

The state didn't match cruelty for cruelty. If it had they would have brought in some other men to rape him, then shot him and buried him alive. Though I'm a bit iffy on what you mean when you say it's the state's job to ensure justice, but that it would not be justice to match cruelty for cruelty. Isn't that what justice is, making sure the punishment fits the crime? I don't see how a slow agonizing death isn't a fit punishment for a slow agonizing death.

If the death penalty cannot be administered humanely then it is unconstitutional and will be ended again - so advocates should be very concerned that this execution went so badly.

A firing squad with modern weapon improvements would solve this problem. Maybe sell him to Lockheed Martin for some live testing of new weapon prototypes. I can think of worse ways to go out than having the honor of being the first man killed by a rail gun or smart gun getting ready for mass production.

[KingsGambit]

I believe the consistent Christian view of incarceration should be for the purpose of protection of society, not for extracting revenge, as per Romans 12:19. (This isn't inconsistent with capital punishment if one thought it was the best means to protect society, though it is notable that studies have shown that it isn't a deterrence in the US. Maybe it would be if executions were public, I don't know.)

[Irate Canadian]

The State's job is to protect the public and ensure justice. It is NOT the State's job to match cruelty for cruelty, hence the 'cruel and unusual' punishment clause. The events are distinct - and just because the criminal is a sadist doesn't mean that the rest of us have to be - or should be.

If the death penalty cannot be administered humanely then it is unconstitutional and will be ended again - so advocates should be very concerned that this execution went so badly. I personally oppose the death penalty as a huge waste of money, time and resources with the added possibility of unjustifiable error (no, it really isn't okay to accidentally put the innocent to death) - but I think the case for immorality is weak as heck.

I suspect the idiots on my side of the fence that keep pressuring drug companies and doctors not to assist are possibly responsible for this travesty. No matter what the guy did, it doesn't justify screwing up his execution - if you have to waste that much money at least do it right - and trying to stop executions through such indirect means will result in greater, unjustifiable suffering. Those of us who oppose the idiot thing need to fight it out in the legislatures and the courts and quit trying to do an end run when the consequences hurt the very people you are trying to keep alive (in my case - preferably in a cage permanently).

Agreed.