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Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...

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  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    so you think we can only go by what Jesus said and nobody else in the bible on stuff?
    It's a PRATT anyway.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      so you think we can only go by what Jesus said and nobody else in the bible on stuff?
      No, only an extremely limited number of things Jesus said.
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        No, only an extremely limited number of things Jesus said.
        an argument from silence. I though JimL, being a genius, would know better than that.

        Proud Member of Da Blonde's Axis of Evil, Adam's Dirty Dozen, Dee Dee's Goon Squad, Tweb's In-Crowd, The Brood of Vipers & Exorcised by Ty & Dee Dee, and the only person who ever banned rogue06!

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        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          an argument from silence. I though JimL, being a genius, would know better than that.
          Jim, having failed miserably at being a political policy wonk, is trying his hand as bibblical skoller.

          So far, the only thing at which JimL shows any success is his willingness and ability to amen Tassman's posts.
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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          • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
            What fact? I'm not sure I follow. Do you have a link to the argument?



            Ok, and? I mean there's only a few options open to someone who claims to be a Christian yet champions gay and transsexual agendas, is pro choice, and constantly drives the point home that his faith will in no way influence his politics (outside of broad stroke social gospel talking points like "be humble," "be nice to others," "take care of the poor"). 1.) Buttigieg knows what scripture says, but disagrees with the mainstream scholarship and orthodox teaching on these matters. 2.) Buttigieg knows what scripture says, but doesn't feel that scripture is authoritative, or is only authoritative in the most general of ways. 3.) Buttigieg is completely ignorant of what scripture says on these matters. 4.) Buttigieg doesn't care what scripture says on these matters.

            Whether he sincerely considers himself a Christian or not is sorta moot. He's either lying or is in gross error. Either way, he's offered enough examples of anti-Christian behavior for fellow Christians to judge the sincerity of his confession, and by that, I don't necessarily mean the sincerity that he himself places in that confession, but sincerity as a synonym for validity. The guy who goes home and beats his wife every night might sincerely believe he's a Christian, and may even believe he has a God-given right to do so, but I, as a fellow Christian, have the right to question the sincerity the validity of his walk with Christ if he's behaving in a way that's so contradictory to Christian faith. Same with Trump. He claims to have made Jesus Lord, but his actions don't come across as someone who really believes he's to love his enemies, to bless those who curse him, and to pray for those who abuse him.
            I agree with pretty much everything you wrote here...with one possible proviso...we do have to be careful in judging new Christians against our own current walk, or others progress. I speak from personal experience. I was heavily into the "drugs, sex and rock & roll mentality" that was common for college kids at the time...(probably still is). But even after I truly became a Christian at age 20, I did not experience (or maybe embrace is a better word?) a radical life style change. It was a slow progression to a more Christian life...with things slowly being let go of, and the new life being embraced. I felt God wanted me to quit smoking both pot and tobacco, but it was almost a year before no more pot and about 2 years to quit tobacco. We won't go into the other areas here but suffice it to say, there were "friends" who would have looked at me on Friday and Saturday nights and swore I was the same party animal I had always been...and any of my Christian friends seeing me would have certainly questioned my faith...
            "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

            "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              not always, I am reminded of Christ's letters to the churches in Revelation. When the church did get too lax and permissive, Christ had some harsh words for them.
              I think I'm missing the context of this reply. What is "not always" directed at?

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              • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                I think I'm missing the context of this reply. What is "not always" directed at?
                That the early church not always "didn't waver in it's position on these issues." - apparently a few did, and that is why Paul and Jesus had to correct them. I think the early churches went through many of the same problems we do today, with giving in to worldly pressures in order to gain new recruits. "Watering down the gospel"

                Proud Member of Da Blonde's Axis of Evil, Adam's Dirty Dozen, Dee Dee's Goon Squad, Tweb's In-Crowd, The Brood of Vipers & Exorcised by Ty & Dee Dee, and the only person who ever banned rogue06!

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                • Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                  I agree with pretty much everything you wrote here...with one possible proviso...we do have to be careful in judging new Christians against our own current walk, or others progress. I speak from personal experience. I was heavily into the "drugs, sex and rock & roll mentality" that was common for college kids at the time...(probably still is). But even after I truly became a Christian at age 20, I did not experience (or maybe embrace is a better word?) a radical life style change. It was a slow progression to a more Christian life...with things slowly being let go of, and the new life being embraced. I felt God wanted me to quit smoking both pot and tobacco, but it was almost a year before no more pot and about 2 years to quit tobacco. We won't go into the other areas here but suffice it to say, there were "friends" who would have looked at me on Friday and Saturday nights and swore I was the same party animal I had always been...and any of my Christian friends seeing me would have certainly questioned my faith...
                  I agree that some are on milk, and some are on meat, and that each needs to be treated respectively, but, by way of example, how many years is it appropriate for one to withhold judgement on the newborn Christian who is sleeping with his boss' wife? It seems to me that when you come into this thing known as Christianity, you've sort of made a deal to disconnect from your old ways of doing things, and start down a new road. 1 Corinthians 5 seems to make the case that it's our duty to judge one another so that there is unity and building up. So that iron can sharpen iron. Perhaps the distinction is between how brothers and sisters are to handle the milk-drinkers from the meat-eaters, and in that I agree. I'm not saying we need to kick immature Christians to the curb who are sinning in ignorance, or still stuck in the habits of the old man, and there is grace, of course, to those who slip and miss the mark even in maturity. But when a Christian is espousing words and ideas that are heavily contrary to the spirit of the Gospel, it should make other Christians take pause and wonder what in the world is going on.

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                  • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                    I agree that some are on milk, and some are on meat, and that each needs to be treated respectively, but, by way of example, how many years is it appropriate for one to withhold judgement on the newborn Christian who is sleeping with his boss' wife? It seems to me that when you come into this thing known as Christianity, you've sort of made a deal to disconnect from your old ways of doing things, and start down a new road. 1 Corinthians 5 seems to make the case that it's our duty to judge one another so that there is unity and building up. So that iron can sharpen iron. Perhaps the distinction is between how brothers and sisters are to handle the milk-drinkers from the meat-eaters, and in that I agree. I'm not saying we need to kick immature Christians to the curb who are sinning in ignorance, or still stuck in the habits of the old man, and there is grace, of course, to those who slip and miss the mark even in maturity. But when a Christian is espousing words and ideas that are heavily contrary to the spirit of the Gospel, it should make other Christians take pause and wonder what in the world is going on.
                    Yeah and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that something is wrong. I remember when I was a new Christian, I was good friends with someone who had been a Christian for many years. He told me he was having an affair and wanted MY advice on it. I had only been a Christian for less than a year, but I knew that an affair was a sin and wrong. I told him he knew it too, and he had to break it off and tell his wife. He hadn't gone all the way to sex, but he was basically dating this woman, finding excuses to see her, and so on. It was only a matter of time. And he knew it and he felt the guilt of it. I think he just needed someone to say it out loud to him, to confess to and to hold him accountable.

                    Proud Member of Da Blonde's Axis of Evil, Adam's Dirty Dozen, Dee Dee's Goon Squad, Tweb's In-Crowd, The Brood of Vipers & Exorcised by Ty & Dee Dee, and the only person who ever banned rogue06!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      What a drama queen. Calling the willful termination of innocent lives "pro-choice rights" is exactly the kind of crap about which Orwell wrote.
                      As someone once quipped: "1984 was NOT supposed to be an instruction manual."

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        That the early church not always "didn't waver in it's position on these issues." - apparently a few did, and that is why Paul and Jesus had to correct them. I think the early churches went through many of the same problems we do today, with giving in to worldly pressures in order to gain new recruits. "Watering down the gospel"
                        Ah. I see where you're coming from. By the "church," I was referring to the orthodox church. And by way of analogy, I wasn't intending to compare the ancient church to the modern church by pointing to one and saying they were unwavering, and we are wavering, rather I was contrasting the levels of comfort and how the early orthodox church endured through that era of discomfort, and came out the other side better for it. I thought that was clear by the context at the time, but looking back I suppose I could have clarified better.

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                        • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                          Ah. I see where you're coming from. By the "church," I was referring to the orthodox church. And by way of analogy, I wasn't intending to compare the ancient church to the modern church by pointing to one and saying they were unwavering, and we are wavering, rather I was contrasting the levels of comfort and how the early orthodox church endured through that era of discomfort, and came out the other side better for it. I thought that was clear by the context at the time, but looking back I suppose I could have clarified better.
                          I was reading through the thread pretty fast trying to catch up so it is possible I misread you.

                          Proud Member of Da Blonde's Axis of Evil, Adam's Dirty Dozen, Dee Dee's Goon Squad, Tweb's In-Crowd, The Brood of Vipers & Exorcised by Ty & Dee Dee, and the only person who ever banned rogue06!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                            I agree that some are on milk, and some are on meat, and that each needs to be treated respectively, but, by way of example, how many years is it appropriate for one to withhold judgement on the newborn Christian who is sleeping with his boss' wife?...
                            Agreeing for the most part with what you said, there's always hope that this newborn Christian will come under conviction, assuming he hasn't taken the position that "there's nothing wrong with it", AND he hasn't declared PRIDE in what he's doing.

                            That's the difference between this type of sexual immorality and what Buttigieg is doing.
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Yeah and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that something is wrong. I remember when I was a new Christian, I was good friends with someone who had been a Christian for many years. He told me he was having an affair and wanted MY advice on it. I had only been a Christian for less than a year, but I knew that an affair was a sin and wrong. I told him he knew it too, and he had to break it off and tell his wife. He hadn't gone all the way to sex, but he was basically dating this woman, finding excuses to see her, and so on. It was only a matter of time. And he knew it and he felt the guilt of it. I think he just needed someone to say it out loud to him, to confess to and to hold him accountable.
                              I have, from time to time, half-joked from the pulpit that I was going to invite some LOST people to come in and express their opinions on what Christians should be doing (or not doing) because even THEY know that certain things are sinful for us.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                                I agree that some are on milk, and some are on meat, and that each needs to be treated respectively, but, by way of example, how many years is it appropriate for one to withhold judgement on the newborn Christian who is sleeping with his boss' wife? It seems to me that when you come into this thing known as Christianity, you've sort of made a deal to disconnect from your old ways of doing things, and start down a new road. 1 Corinthians 5 seems to make the case that it's our duty to judge one another so that there is unity and building up. So that iron can sharpen iron. Perhaps the distinction is between how brothers and sisters are to handle the milk-drinkers from the meat-eaters, and in that I agree. I'm not saying we need to kick immature Christians to the curb who are sinning in ignorance, or still stuck in the habits of the old man, and there is grace, of course, to those who slip and miss the mark even in maturity. But when a Christian is espousing words and ideas that are heavily contrary to the spirit of the Gospel, it should make other Christians take pause and wonder what in the world is going on.
                                I think so many who have been Christians for a long time, (I think esp. those who accepted Christ at a young age and basically grew up in the church) see a new Christian come to Christ, and think, why is he still listening to Death Metal music? Why is he still using coarse/foul language. Why are they continuing to gossip or be gluttons? Why is he still drinking alcohol?... or whatever you want to name....and harshly chastise them for this "sin". It many times ends up driving them right back out of the church...I've seen it happen more than once. Not that we don't correct them necessarily but, it should be done in love...and from God's viewpoint, not ours. For instance, I don't think Trump's supposed conversion was that long ago, and I doubt he has many Christians around him to emulate Christian behavior.
                                "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                                "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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